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We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

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Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#121

Post by PapaPalpatine »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #100
skywhopper wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, your posts are filled with wild non-sequiturs. “Don’t you believe in freedom?” What?

Dude, I'd argue that the people in these comments are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I see people presenting two beliefs: 1) enterprises should be free to offer the services they want, to who they want 2) consumers have the right to bully enterprises that don't offer what they want And that's fine. People can have different politics. But IIUC, these two beliefs are mutually exclusive. Dictionary for the illiter…

Nah, you’ve got a bad take. I don’t know why but you strike me as very anti-consumer.

Maybe horrendous is the wrong word, but having a corporation like Docker accepting applications for an open-source program, and then ghosting those applicants, isn’t acceptable or professional.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#122

Post by mikepurvis »

curt15 wrote: post #97
bayindirh wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I have a personal Docker license, but I avoid containers where I can (because containerizing everything by default has its own set of problems). I use containers as "very fat, stateless" binaries which are run when I need to do something (generate a webpage, take backups, etc.). People got Docker for granted because startups and modern sysadmins absolutely despised installing software on physical or VM servers.…

Containers took off because it was the easiest way for developers targeting Linux to get a predictable runtime environment. It freed them having to worry about the differences between Debian's OpenSSL or Red Hat's OpenSSL libraries or even the differences between different versions of a distribution. You don't see nearly the same level of uptake among Windows developers because not only is there only one Windows API…

Some have argued that the rise of containers correlates with the rise of Python, explaining that containers are particularly well suited to packaging up the dumpster fire that any moderately-complicated Python app quickly becomes.

Of course now we have Rust and Go, but being able to shove your statically-compiled binary into a tiny scratch container and have it cooperate with orchestration systems is still a pretty nice abstraction— just harder to say if it would have been worth it had we not had Django apps needing to be made deployable first.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#123

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

TZubiri wrote: post #73
the-grump wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. I'm not only using containers to deploy my VPSes. Thank you for trying. P.S. at least use something declarative and provider-agnostic like terraform.

What else are you using containers for?

Testing things on my laptop and deploying services to my home lab. Both benefit enormously from the minimal overhead, fast deployment, and ease of completely removing a service once I'm done with it.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#124

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #24
sealeck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

And once those services are fully developed, and the market is captured, do they still need to provide free services? Isn't compatibility issues a major problem for alternative registries?

> Isn't compatibility issues a major problem for alternative registries?

Er, is it? I've used a handful of different registries and never hit anything that even resembled a compatibility problem. Have I just been lucky?

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#125

Post by keybored »

sealeck wrote: post #11
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

With your framing this looks like the free/“free” initial use of such a framing is similar to free accounts on new social media platforms. In that case the motivation is super clear: grow the social platform since a social platform with few users is useless. Then when they get big enough they start charging. Once you’re already locked in via all sorts of connections.

Again in the case of social platforms: for the longest time this was framed as user entitlement if anyone didn’t like it. Which failed to see the other side. Yes, the users wanted something free but the company also got something back from the user.

We could go back and forth on details like the service growing to such a point that the free service becomes too much of a burden on them. But consider the case when the free service was treated by the business as an investment for $X which was supposed to carry that cost until the proverbial rug could be pulled from the users without a mass exodus—grow your user base until you have enough of a mass to demand a considerable escape velocity in order to be avoided.

Again, arguments could be made either way. But it is definitely not as simple-cut as an altruistic service versus selfish users/consumers.

I’m sure someone versed in Economics could summarize the above in a phrase or a sentence.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#126

Post by schmookeeg »

dangus wrote: post #79

Docker lists a phone number on their website, perhaps you can try that? Instead of all the snide remarks I’ll offer another possible solution: Contact sales for Docker Business, first state your interest in the business enterprise plan, maybe even make some statements about how it would benefit you, but also during the sales/discovery/demo process note the problems you’re having as a free organization and how they ha…

Heh, I seem to have stumbled into /r/UnethicalLifeProTips

...not disagreeing with the approach. :) I swear something like half of my problems in life can be boiled down to poor/absent communication. If you're going to LARP as a grown-up company, as Docker seems to be, then you need to do the work and respond to the emails. Even from the freebie customers.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#127

Post by regularfry »

TZubiri wrote: post #21
regularfry wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, raw disk images. If you give me a block device, I can boot off it. Slightly less trivially, anything qemu-img handles should probably be considered at least in the neutral direction, if not actually neutral.

The standard would be BIOS/UEFI, and Partition schemas like GPT/MBR in that case. However it's not always the case that you can just raw copy with dd some OS and expect it to function. OS integrate with hardware and installation can produce a unique binary OS specialized for that hardware. If you can magically dd an OS or swap an OS disk from machine to machine, then it's because of OS and kernel dev magic and can ca…

> it's not always the case that you can just raw copy with dd some OS and expect it to function.

No, and that's not the context here.

> The standard would be BIOS/UEFI, and Partition schemas like GPT/MBR in that case.

I think the trick of wedging an MBR into the first sector of an ext2 partition with extlinux as a bootloader should still work. You really don't need much.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#128

Post by dangus »

schmookeeg wrote: post #126
dangus wrote: post #79

Docker lists a phone number on their website, perhaps you can try that? Instead of all the snide remarks I’ll offer another possible solution: Contact sales for Docker Business, first state your interest in the business enterprise plan, maybe even make some statements about how it would benefit you, but also during the sales/discovery/demo process note the problems you’re having as a free organization and how they ha…

Heh, I seem to have stumbled into /r/UnethicalLifeProTips ...not disagreeing with the approach. :) I swear something like half of my problems in life can be boiled down to poor/absent communication. If you're going to LARP as a grown-up company, as Docker seems to be, then you need to do the work and respond to the emails. Even from the freebie customers.

I will say though, I get it, non-paying customers aren’t customers.

But if that’s the case that they offer a free tier/open source project tier without support they shouldn’t offer a service that isn’t 100% self-service.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#129

Post by rmgk »

nickjj wrote: post #108
joshstrange wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100%. I managed a hiring process last year (my first) and from the outset I wanted to make sure I let every applicant that we talked to know if we had decided to pass. It was a lot easier said/thought than done. That email is horrible to send. My stomach dropped out every time I hit “send”, for exactly the reasons you stated. I dreaded the replies which often included some kind of “Why?” question. I completely u…

I would much rather get an honest answer in any scenario, no matter what it is. There are people out there who would take that feedback and reflect on it in a positive way. How else can you improve or be mindful of things in the future if you don't even know what happened or what went wrong? I sort of feel like the people who don't give honest feedback or ghost aren't trying to protect anyone's feelings or are avoidi…

Giving good individual feedback requires effort and is low priority. Those things tend to not happen without requiring complicated feelings to be involved.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#130

Post by fastasucan »

nickjj wrote: post #108
joshstrange wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 100%. I managed a hiring process last year (my first) and from the outset I wanted to make sure I let every applicant that we talked to know if we had decided to pass. It was a lot easier said/thought than done. That email is horrible to send. My stomach dropped out every time I hit “send”, for exactly the reasons you stated. I dreaded the replies which often included some kind of “Why?” question. I completely u…

I would much rather get an honest answer in any scenario, no matter what it is. There are people out there who would take that feedback and reflect on it in a positive way. How else can you improve or be mindful of things in the future if you don't even know what happened or what went wrong? I sort of feel like the people who don't give honest feedback or ghost aren't trying to protect anyone's feelings or are avoidi…

Interestingly you exemplify the problem here. You ignore their explanation and examples and rather fall down to prescribe some flaw to them. Ironically this is some of the outcomes of giving honest feedback that makes people don't bother.
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