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The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

kranga.notion.site

121–130 of 460 posts

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#121

Since I'm in the process of seeking a job, I would like to share a somehow related experience in one technical interview, this time for a senior DevOps role. So, after the initial introductions and talking a bit about infra as code with Terraform, they interviewer asked a question: "What would you use if you cannot use Terraform for a project?" To which I initially answered, since it was a SENIOR position, with a war…

> Although I was somehow offended

No somehow to it, that's just offensive.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#122

What a genuinely terrible interview. Seems like a great way to learn absolutely nothing about the candidate. I would have walked out half way through. These types of questions are very telling of an organization which is extremely insecure in its own abilities. For anyone who is a somewhat experienced programmer it is not hard to tell if someone else knows what he is talking about. You do not need to waste 45 minutes…

Wittgenstein’s ruler in action.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#123

I will go against the grain and say I do not consider OPs fizzbuzz solution to score particular well on readability or maintainability. And these were the only two stated core requirements. The solution is clever and demonstrates solid knowledge of TS. However, in my experience getting too clever with the type system is not always a good idea for ordinary application code maintained by a team of average TS developers…

Keep in mind that they came up with this solution after the interviewers forbid the use of numeric types and math while still keeping a limit of 30 lines. What do you expect? I found the solution impressive given the circumstances. At this point I would have thrown the towel.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#124
post #41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work, would you rather have a boss that makes you implement dumb ideas? Or would you prefer a boss who recognises that your idea is better, then rewards you for it? You are interviewing them too. I would also have hired the candidate.

The author’s answer was clever, but also unconventional. The company was probably looking for someone that would write code in a shared codebase that other developers will need to contribute to and maintain. Thinking outside the box and not following suggestions might have raised a red flag that this person might be a loose cannon. In a small company, hiring someone smart but unwilling to follow directions can be det…

Normally I’d give the company the benefit of the doubt for the reasons you point out, but not in this case. If you’re asking increasingly convoluted/unrealistic/impractical questions, you can’t complain that the response wasn’t practical.

It gives off strong “your answer might be correct but it’s not on my answer key so I’m marking you wrong” teacher vibes. Avoid at all costs.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#125
From a lot of the comments it feels like many people don’t seem to understand what the interviewers were looking for.

To be clear upfront, it wasn’t simply getting the right answer spat out by the candidate’s solution.

At one level they were trying to asses that you did in fact know how to write code, but since they’re assuming most of their candidates can write code, they were also checking to see what you would do when presented with evolving requirements and constraints.

If I were the interviewers (considering candidates are more stressed than they would normally be on a job), I wouldn’t necessarily require the candidates got all the requirements met as long as they were clearly on the right track and able to explain what they were doing.

Although the technical assessment was contrived (which is okay in an interview), it was absolutely not a “leet code” style problem, but instead super approachable and easy to understand. It doesn’t seem they were doing anything to “try catch people out” so as to disqualify them, but made it interesting enough that they could hopefully get a bit of insight into how the candidate tends to think and behave.

I do think the interviewers were silly to entertain the candidate’s approach for as long as they did, after it was clear that it was very impressive, even if highly impractical for the actual task at hand (which was to show the interviewers your typical day-to-day approach to coding tasks), they should have said very clearly to the candidate “your solution is very impressive and clever, but as we’re trying to gain insight on your approach to typical day-to-day coding, please change your approach such that we’re able to do so”. And they kind of did say something similar, which the candidate essentially ignored to… outsmart them?

If you ask me, the candidate is very skilled and intelligent, but at the same time not very smart in terms of understanding what other people actually “need”.

Most properly experienced software developers have learnt that often what customers “ask for” isn’t actually what they need, very often you give them what they asked for and when they actually see it in action, they realize it won’t actually do what’s needed and then iteration happens.

The candidate in this case gave the interviewers what they asked for, but not what the interviewers needed from them.

The hard parts of software development is almost always not about building something that technically works, but rather working out what’s actually needed.

My message to the candidate is, you seem very technically talented, but you don’t seem to understand very well about how the world and most people in it tend to “work”.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#126
I wish I could have seen the code at each step instead of just, "That was easy." Because he seems to have focused on the functionality of the code, not on the clear message that their goal is to see how robust, reliable, and readable you can make your code. I don't think this interview was actually about the code, it was about long-term maintenance and risk avoidance.

So while I am not saying I love this interview method, and other comments are correct that weird tricks seem to be required... I still think the interview served its purpose. OP is not a good match for this company. No judgment implied there - this is the purpose of interviews: for both sides to see if they work well together. In this case, they do not.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#127

What a genuinely terrible interview. Seems like a great way to learn absolutely nothing about the candidate. I would have walked out half way through. These types of questions are very telling of an organization which is extremely insecure in its own abilities. For anyone who is a somewhat experienced programmer it is not hard to tell if someone else knows what he is talking about. You do not need to waste 45 minutes…

Failing this interview saved the candidate from working for a crappy company, doubling their salary isn't really worth it.

Why on earth would the interviewer think that 0 is not a multiple of 3 and 5?

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#128
post #48
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author’s answer was clever, but also unconventional. The company was probably looking for someone that would write code in a shared codebase that other developers will need to contribute to and maintain. Thinking outside the box and not following suggestions might have raised a red flag that this person might be a loose cannon. In a small company, hiring someone smart but unwilling to follow directions can be det…

Then that expectation should be communicated clearly, not via some obscure passive aggressive subtones, don't you find?

Ideally yes, but most people in corporate settings don't communicate clearly. So if they have a culture of dropping hints, and you don't take them you're not going to do well at the company.

It's not good, but it's an accurate reflection of the work environment.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#129

I wish I could have seen the code at each step instead of just, "That was easy." Because he seems to have focused on the functionality of the code, not on the clear message that their goal is to see how robust, reliable, and readable you can make your code. I don't think this interview was actually about the code, it was about long-term maintenance and risk avoidance. So while I am not saying I love this interview me…

Would any developer be a good match for that company?

My judgment is that this company has no idea of what they are doing. Not uncommon for companies with under 50 employees.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#130

I will go against the grain and say I do not consider OPs fizzbuzz solution to score particular well on readability or maintainability. And these were the only two stated core requirements. The solution is clever and demonstrates solid knowledge of TS. However, in my experience getting too clever with the type system is not always a good idea for ordinary application code maintained by a team of average TS developers…

Getting clever with type systems is exactly why everyone hates Java and OOP.

Fizz buzz is also much better treated like data stream and applying reactive programming.

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