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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

collegetowns.substack.com

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#121
post #110
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freeze frame: https://imgur.com/a/ASSeakh > the stop lines are out of frame Is the car in the freeze frame in a legal position given the red light? It would appear not.

There is another line before. We don't really see the entire intersection.

Yes, you are correct. That's why I specifically did not address the car's entry into the intersection.

Given the red light, is the car in a legal position in the freeze frame?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#122
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. They expect safe walking and biking infra to fall from the sky and complain online when it does not.

"Car-centrism" isn't some immutable property given to the US at the dawn of time. Infrastructure is built according to people's opinions, and in a democracy you change those people's opinions (or replace them altogether) by complaining. And I don't think pedestrian infrastructure advocates expect it to "fall from the sky". They expect it to be built by municipalities over time, just like everyone else.

I fully disagree. Road infra is engineered to move goods quickly, and never to public opinion unless that public opinion brings loads of cash to help. Again, there are major exceptions to this default. Complaining about it helps, but does not bring cash to the table when it's time to build or rebuild road infra. As municipalities change over time, a city will always regress to car-first. Cars are simply the easiest path for it to move goods quickly.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally referring to the "Dutch traffic engineering standards" when they say "Dutch traffic engineering standards"

What standards specifically? What is the solution to the problem that Dutch standards provide? Duh

It’s an entire book length of material, but in short, for built up areas drivers are forced through street to design to be higher alert to their surroundings. EX: chicanes in the road, speed tables, brick roads, narrow streets, small/tight turn radius, no turn on red, etc. These all work together to make a system that is amongst the safest in the world for pedestrians, and by happenstance has the happiest drivers.

Also, bike traffic and vehicle through traffic are separated on different networks, so a conflicts are minimized.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this surprises you, consider the alternative: Driving through a yellow being illegal or unexpected doesn't make sense, given the finite stopping distance of cars, and reaction time of humans. This is because the yellow light is the first explicit indicator you must stop. If this doesn't make sense still, picture this scenario: You are driving at the speed limit. You are 500ms from crossing the stop line threshold.…

Austria does that: 4 seconds of the green light flashing in order to announce the yellow light.

With this change to the scenario, being required to stop before yellow makes sense. And blowing through red means you extra screwed up! (?)

On this note: In the UK, there is a yellow light prior to green; love it.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#125

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

Make it a roundabout with protected pedestrian crossings. That forces drivers to be looking at the conflict point with pedestrians as they manoeuvre the roundabout.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#126
I see decisions of the same type being made in the suburbs around here all the time, and the prioritization is identical. I think the issue is suburbanites and small-town folks generally have not experienced a walkable environment and don't understand how pleasant it can be. They are usually ensconced in cars and go isolated from one destination to another without actually touching the community at all.

I was trying to advocate for bike lanes and no-through traffic for a few streets near our small town's historic center a few months ago, and I'm sorry to say, to the community, I think I sounded like a weird European hippy. Even though I'm totally not a hippy and I'm American-born. I'm as capitalist as you can get. But I still think if the state is going to make design decisions on our streets, we should make decisions that make our neighborhoods better and ultimately more inviting and valuable.

The main opposition to what I was proposing was coming from neighborhoods that must commute from further beyond the city center to get to the highway that connects our town to the nearest major city. We have other, faster, wider roads to get to the highway from all parts of our town, but there are people that are adamant that during rush hour, they must be allowed to potentially commute through the historic downtown, and residential neighborhoods, to avoid traffic jams.

I was trying to explain that the bottlenecks are always the main streets that have the highway on-ramps, but to no avail. People like having many potential, fast routes to the highway, and they are deeply uncomfortable with you removing some routes even if they rarely use those routes themselves.

In other words, occasional car use is more important than daily, frequent pedestrian use.

And where were the pedestrians during this town-hall? For whatever reason there were none. Or if there were, they were silent. I was trying to understand why nobody else was speaking up when there are so many bikers, kids, parents with strollers, walkers with dogs, etc., using these streets that will be impacted by bad decision-making, and my conclusion is that young active people, and those with kids, have no time to go to town-halls. And the kinds of people that do go to town-halls are weirdos with design fetishes, like me, and extremely ornery and conservative people who see any change in their town as an assault on the AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE by perverted European-hippy Democratic Degenerates (into which category I have unfortunately been slotted it seems, though I'm embarrassingly capitalist and libertarian).

I would not suggest this will be the median experience in America. My town has a fair number of MAGA lawn signs, American flags, lifted trucks, Punisher stickers, etc., in addition to the tech community. So its a very specific kind of mix. I'm sure those of you in Berkeley or San Francisco will have much better luck.

My community has some of the strangest dynamics you have ever seen.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#127

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

I don't see why a re-design like this wouldn't have included both pedestrian and car infrastructure improvements. Tighten all the turn radii, add bump-outs to each corner, and you could have a signalized intersection that is better than it was before for both.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#128
post #40

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

The way I learned this was "in legal, out legal," meaning that you are not allowed to be driving in the intersection while the light is red (aka you have to be finished transiting by the time the light changes). Is this not the law in California?

In my state you are allowed to exit the intersection while the light is red but may only enter while it's green or yellow. In driver's ed they taught us to enter the intersection while waiting to make a left turn so that we could complete the turn after the light turned yellow/red and opposing traffic stopped.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally referring to the "Dutch traffic engineering standards" when they say "Dutch traffic engineering standards"

What standards specifically? What is the solution to the problem that Dutch standards provide? Duh

Which requires a long and detailed answer that can be found by simply googling "Dutch traffic engineering standards" which leads you to an entire wealth of information.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#130
post #80

The county where I live recently (within the last couple of years) redid a two-way stop along the road I take to work. It used to be east-west that had the stop signs, but for some reason they switched them to north-south. Even more baffling, they didn't repaint the stop lines so east-west still had those and north-south didn't. It effectively turned the intersection into a four-way stop with extra confusion, frustra…

should've been a roundabout with 0 stops

Roundabouts aren't great for pedestrians. You need to trust the drivers' signals.
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