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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#121

Post by WillPostForFood »

whimsicalism wrote: post #104
maxwellg wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All we do in SF is make car driving worse, we almost never make public transit better. In the last half decade we've seen the opening of the Salesforce transit center, the Chinatown subway station, the Van Ness BRT, the Caltrain Electrification Project, BART expansion to Berryessa, 800 new BART cars, and hundreds of smaller projects. You can see a full list of SFMTA projects at https://www.sfmta.com/sfmta-projects

it's too bad SF did not build an underground railway system covering the city in the short window when the labor to do so was affordable

1851?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#122

Post by nine_k »

leetcrew wrote: post #100
tlogan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is straightforward: make driving more pleasant for wealthy people. Rich Democrats will claim it’s beneficial for the environment, while rich Republicans will call it capitalism at work. In the end, improving public transit isn’t really on their radar. And they rule the world.

buses and cars compete for the same right of way. improving one mode necessarily comes at the cost of the other, but many more people can be moved with a bus. trains would be even better, but people don't like to see the price tag. almost not worth discussing honestly. this has become yet another factionalized holy war over the last decade.

I wish we had more trains where it's still possible to route them in shallow tunnels that are cheap to build by excavations, say, in many parts of Brooklyn. (The 2nd Avenue extension had to pierce rock at rather serious depths.)

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#123

Post by leetcrew »

tlogan wrote: post #109
leetcrew wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

buses and cars compete for the same right of way. improving one mode necessarily comes at the cost of the other, but many more people can be moved with a bus. trains would be even better, but people don't like to see the price tag. almost not worth discussing honestly. this has become yet another factionalized holy war over the last decade.

One challenge with your 100% logical reasoning is that it assumes wealthy and powerful people share the same priorities you do. Unfortunately, this is rarely true, and it often takes time to realize just how different those priorities can be. I’m all for public transit myself, but after 25 years in San Francisco, I’ve only seen it decline. That sentiment isn’t just mine—many longtime SF residents share this cynicism.

I don't live in SF, so could definitely be some local nuances I'm missing. in NYC, there is a pretty clear partisan split on the new congestion tax. the (relatively) red leaning areas are the loudest opponents. I guess having so many high earners already taking public transit might change the discussion.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#124

Post by jazzyjackson »

cyberax wrote: post #114
milch wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most transit agencies have this problem of the "vicious transit cycle" - people don't take the bus because it's too infrequent/unreliable => more cars make the buses more unreliable => less money because so few people take it => back to start. It's amazing when you're sitting in a bus behind 20 cars backed up over 4 blocks, and you look back and there's 50 people on the bus. Really makes you think why the 50-person b…

Nah. Most agencies have a problem of people realizing that wasting life in buses is not worth it. Transit can never compete with cars on speed in well-designed cities.

I guess by 'well designed cities' you mean 'cities with copious amounts of parking'

For certain high frequency routes in Chicago, I never minded sitting on the bus to get across town. At least once I got off I didn't have to find a parking spot. Now wasting life waiting for a bus is another story.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#125

Post by fragmede »

whimsicalism wrote: post #105
fragmede wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF put in 33 speed cameras in known locations, and are aiming to install 900 more by the end of this year. As a bonus to speeders, speeds in excess of 100 mph will incur a $500 speeding ticket, though that may have unintended consequences.

what unintended consequences?

A normal person sees that $500 fine as a incentive to not go that fast. But there's a certain kind of person for whom $500 is nothing compared to being able to tell the story of that time the city sold them a picture of them, complete with certificate that says they broke 100mph somewhere in the city limits, a trophy to frame and display openly in the garage next to said vehicle.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#126

Post by resters »

tlogan wrote: post #96
taatof wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get around? To get downtown I have to take two busses and then bart (or two busses but it takes longer because there are a lot more stops). The kicker: I'm not even in a suburb, I live in SF! All we do in SF is make car driving worse, we almost never make public transit better. At least NYC has a plenty good enough train system. I end up WFH anyway, largely because it's annoying to get to an office downtown…

The goal is straightforward: make driving more pleasant for wealthy people. Rich Democrats will claim it’s beneficial for the environment, while rich Republicans will call it capitalism at work. In the end, improving public transit isn’t really on their radar. And they rule the world.

Suppose a non-rich person needs to use the highways for work and can make twice as many stops during the day because of congestion pricing.

Imagine a group of non-rich people who decide to carpool because of congestion pricing and end up spending half the time in traffic every day and as a result get more leisure time.

Considering that a parking spot in Mahnattan costs close to $1K per month, most of the cars are driven by people who are not poor.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#127

Post by whimsicalism »

SoftTalker wrote: post #116
whimsicalism wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what unintended consequences?

$500 is just dinner for some people in SF. Or maybe people will drive at 99 mph to get the best value.

is this different than the existing law? like they're not lowering the penalty

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#128

Post by resters »

seaofliberty wrote: post #110

[flagged]

What about people who work for a living making service calls who can make twice as many because they don't sit in traffic as long? What about poor people who may choose to carpool to save money but who get an extra hour of leisure time each day to spend with their kids?

Meanwhile, if slightly wealthier people end up riding the subway, that will help a bit with public safety -- I lived in NYC a few years ago and never felt remotely in danger on the subway any time of day or night.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#129

Post by RhysU »

paxys wrote: post #84
RhysU wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it "pure propaganda" is itself pure propaganda. Counterpoint, this poor soul who was literally burned to death: https://nypost.com/2024/12/31/us-news/mystery-woman-torched-... The subway is worse than it was pre-Covid. Congestion pricing will not address that. "Suck it up cowards" is hardly good public policy.

Okay now let's similarly post about every single one of the hundreds of people who were killed in traffic accidents last year in the city (including plenty who burned to death in their cars). That should be enough to convince you that no one should drive here right? Or is safety suddenly not a concern anymore?

Well, hell, let's think about everyone who choked to death in New York. Krazy Kat should levy a masticulation tax below 60th street. It'll be easier to get a table! Think of all the environmental benefits of not eating fancy foods!

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#130

Post by Niksko »

milch wrote: post #97
jazzyjackson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fewer single-person-vehicles = more desirable ontime Bus/Tram throughput = more people who are close to MUNIBART taking MUNIBART. Then use tolls to improve and expand the mass transit services instead of only ever catering to the single-person-car-commuters. (ofc it takes more than ontime performance to sell people on mass transit, needs to be a safe environment at all hours of the day -- even if I can take BART into…

Most transit agencies have this problem of the "vicious transit cycle" - people don't take the bus because it's too infrequent/unreliable => more cars make the buses more unreliable => less money because so few people take it => back to start. It's amazing when you're sitting in a bus behind 20 cars backed up over 4 blocks, and you look back and there's 50 people on the bus. Really makes you think why the 50-person b…

And if you look to places like Meixco City and Bogota, their bus rapid transit is very fast and efficient. But good luck taking away a single lane of traffic for dedicated bus services anywhere in the US.
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