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The Latest On Intelligence

danielwillingham.com

121–130 of 172 posts

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#121
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you're not succumbing to the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect, gwern.

Heh. And I started reading the paper with such high hopes when it came out months ago, too.. For those not familiar, realitygrill is referencing a classic Crichton quote: "Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I call it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous n…

I never knew it was the "Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect" but I've been using this exact line of reasoning for many years when discussing the validity of stories read and watched in the media. Interestingly I discovered it as a kid reading a newspaper article about video games something I was very much into at the time. The were talking about the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo and at least half of the article's "facts" were just flat wrong and many of the opinions were far left field of what a legitimate gamer would really think. That's when I made the connection. If this story which is something that I am intimately familiar is so utterly wrong then...what about the things I don't know about. That was about the time I stopped paying so much attention to the general media.

I didn't know it had a fancy name though.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#122

Am I the only one who reads these kinds reports and has that impression that today's psychology and biology is less than 0.1% of the way to provide a useful model for intelligence? The best measurement of intelligence that we have today (IQ tests) seem completely worthless for practical purpose compared to what we actually need to know to build solutions on. IQ tests are still too bad to measure actual "intelligence"…

But isn't it fascinating how much we can learn about intelligence even if we rely on crappy metrics like IQ tests?

Just like you can learn a lot about music without having a formal definition of what "good" music is.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#123

"A great deal of time has been wasted in the effort of measuring the heritability of traits in the false expectation that somehow the genetic nature of psychological phenomena would be revealed." There is a strong cultural bias among much of the research community to go out of their way to deny any genetic factors in intelligence. Perhaps this is well intentioned, but it is absurd. I have come across very few squirre…

You're not alone. I've always wondered, how come different dog breeds have different behavior and intelligence levels. Yet certain breeds are much smarter than others and capable of greater learning capacity. Any kind of comparison, even scientific, between human races would be seen as racist and thrown out immediately. It conjures up all sorts of negative emotions. Hitler, Nazis, Eugenics, Master Races, Holocausts.

I think deep down inside we are slaves to our genetics and many people know so and have significant evidence for it but are keeping quiet. And I don't blame them. The repercussions of telling the human race "Your success, happiness, intelligence, health, and entire life is limited by your genetics." would be horrific. Half the world would be on anti-depression medications if you told them that and proved it. No one wants to be told who they are before they're given a chance to discover themselves on their own. Also, genetics are not the end all of success. Just because someone doesn't have the genes that make them more likely to be successful doesn't mean they'll never be successful. There are other ways around. Aggression, luck, money, hard work, etc....

For instance, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest intelligence and very poor Spatial intelligence according to research. After them come north east Asians. Jews are disproportionately successful in numerous fields. 25% of Nobel prize winners are jewish and this is increasing. All of the major Hollywood studios were started by jews and are currently dominated by jews. The NYT's Joel Stein could only find 5 non-jewish executives in all of Hollywood. Most of the top writers are also jewish. Banking and finance is dominated by them as well. So is the fashion industry: Marc Jacobs, Ralph Lauren, Marc Echo, Calvin Klein, Estée Lauder, Kenneth Cole, and others are jewish. Levi's jeans as well. 2 of the internet's biggest companies, Google and Facebook were started by jews Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Mark Zuckerberg. People's refusal to acknowledge that genetics has anything to do with intelligence is exactly what has sprouted numerous conspiracy theories to try to explain why jews are so well achieved.

Also, look at men vs women. How many wars have women started compared to men? Nearly every war, genocide, and conflict has been caused entirely by men. Why is it that we never see the female versions of Hitler, Gangis Kahn, Napoleon, Stalin, etc... Because evolution has created extremely violent men (not all of us of course). Evolution wise, we're disposable. Women are not. The human race can easily be replenished with 99 women and 1 man. But not with 99 men and 1 women. And so women live much more "slow but steady" lifestyles while men are more likely to live "risky" lifestyles. Rewards are proportionate to risk. So men reap the rewards when it comes to inventions, companies, religions, nation building, etc...

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most impoverished Americans have TVs and microwaves. What's your point? Ownership of an arbitrary appliance doesn't mean you're able to put food on the table or afford tuition for your children. You don't need to eat a TV every night to survive nor can you fill up your gas tank on microwaves. Besides, in the developed world, TVs and microwaves are a dime a dozen and are regularly discarded because their abundance m…

He asked a good question. To what level does the bar need to rise to eliminate poverty as something that holds someone back? Is easy access to food and education that level? My gut feeling that wealth disparity is a bigger issue than absolute wealth. If the poor lived in mansions and drove Ferraris, but the rich owned entire islands and private rocket ships that travel to Mars, the poor people still wouldn't have acc…

>If the poor lived in mansions and drove Ferraris, but the rich owned entire islands and private rocket ships that travel to Mars, the poor people still wouldn't have access to what the wealthier people have, still setting them back from achieving their true potential.

It's not about absolute material equity, it's about comfortably meeting one's needs such that second order concerns (like studying or tinkering with a mobile SDK) become viable pursuits. Living in a mansion means you can likely afford food, rent, transportation, insurance, healthcare, tuition, and all the other expenses that leave the poor with little room for "achieving true potential".

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you're aware that a tremendous amount of ink and (social-)scientist hours have been spent doing "science" with the presumption that there "are no genes for IQ" etc., so it makes sense to be on guard against biased writing (at least by publication/file-drawer bias) on the topic. You have gwern wrong. He's an unbiased scientist on this topic.

At best this is "the other guy swung first." At worst it is just a straw man. What you claim the other guys do is irrelevant. Territory defense is irrelevant. Facts are relevant and fist-fights do not uncover them. Why can't the critique proceed on a higher level than "those Xists are deliberately lying again"? If your way of judging a paper is to look at who wrote it, then conclude that the paper is bad based on som…

[To gwern, unprovoked] You are attempting the early dismissal of some viewpoint you disagree with on a more or less political grounds but this has not very much to do with science.

[Next reply] Why can't the critique proceed on a higher level than "those Xists are deliberately lying again"?

You seem to be suffering from some cognitive dissonance here.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#126

Am I the only one who reads these kinds reports and has that impression that today's psychology and biology is less than 0.1% of the way to provide a useful model for intelligence? The best measurement of intelligence that we have today (IQ tests) seem completely worthless for practical purpose compared to what we actually need to know to build solutions on. IQ tests are still too bad to measure actual "intelligence"…

How do you explain the fact that when the law allows, companies all over the world give IQ tests to prospective employees? And that studies have shown that IQ is one of the best predictors of job performance?

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more worried about this: > There is not a single mention of the many failures to replicate, methodological critiques, or skeptical meta-analyses about n-back. Can you refute that?

If you think I am defending the paper because I am its ideological ally, you have not understood what I said

Oh, this wasn't a jab at you. Rather, that's the part of grandparent's post that I think is the most concerning. I just don't have the knowledge and skills to see if it's true, so I was asking you.

Usually, part of the science process is to analyze results in the context of similar work. If the authors are indeed cherry-picking and ignoring counter-results instead of acknowledging them, then that's bad.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty huge assumption, that micro-nutrients are a significant part of any difference. You've assumed, first, that it's poverty that causes the lowered IQ, rather than that both poverty and lower-IQ are both effects of a common cause. Second, even if there really is a causal chain, why in the world would you assume that the difference is related to nutrition? Why not, for example, cultural differences in the…

Poor isn't a culture.

Poor isn't a single culture, but it's quite likely that poverty has certain consistent cultural effects which could contribute to lower IQ.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#129

"A great deal of time has been wasted in the effort of measuring the heritability of traits in the false expectation that somehow the genetic nature of psychological phenomena would be revealed." There is a strong cultural bias among much of the research community to go out of their way to deny any genetic factors in intelligence. Perhaps this is well intentioned, but it is absurd. I have come across very few squirre…

The squirrel example is absolutely absurd - there are clear physiological, morphological differences between human beings and squirrels that influence whether or not squirrels even have the capacity to master fire, or whatever other silly comparison you choose. Furthermore, I think you will find that environmental factors plainly influence the behavior of animal populations (squirrels, chimpanzees, birds - any kingdom, genus or species you choose) far more than any particular genetic variation among them - animals of the same species without abundant resources behave quite differently from animals of the same species in an environment of abundance (one need only look at any pest species - animal or plant - to see that this is true).

There does not exist much variation across 'societies' of animals within the same species - one tribe of baboons is much like another tribe - but there exist vast gaps between societies of human beings, so far as these gaps influence the environment of individuals among populations, and entire populations as a whole.

There is no physiological model for human intelligence, and since only physiological traits are inheritable (though psychological traits may be derived from morphological differences) there is no model for genetic influence on intelligence. Since there is no model, you can only blindly test a black-box hypothesis - and the results from those tests appear to support the conclusion that there does not exist any inheritable, physiological difference that would influence intelligence, controlling for societal factors.

Re: The Latest On Intelligence

#130

"A great deal of time has been wasted in the effort of measuring the heritability of traits in the false expectation that somehow the genetic nature of psychological phenomena would be revealed." There is a strong cultural bias among much of the research community to go out of their way to deny any genetic factors in intelligence. Perhaps this is well intentioned, but it is absurd. I have come across very few squirre…

The squirrel example is absolutely absurd - there are clear physiological, morphological differences between human beings and squirrels that influence whether or not squirrels even have the capacity to master fire, or whatever other silly comparison you choose. Furthermore, I think you will find that environmental factors plainly influence the behavior of animal populations (squirrels, chimpanzees, birds - any kingdo…

I would also add, that the political agenda is not from those advancing the idea that environment influences human development, but from those that contend it is genetics.

Consider the sorts of policies someone who wanted to maximise productivity in society would develop if it was found that genetics was a greater influencing factor - why would you support development for poor populations of people if it was found that they simply don't have the same development potential? You would simply screen for the 'genius' gene and push the rest of society toward a supporting role.

In the case of the environmental view, you must now implement policies that raise the living conditions for the majority of people in society - better and more schools, better and more social programs, better opportunity - that's expensive, and there's not much money to be made.

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