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Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

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Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#121

Post by kgwgk »

ra wrote: post #23
Towaway69 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This: > no idea he had to make the approach in the opposite direction. So the wall is actually at the beginning of the runway. That wall was never never meant to be at the end of a landing but at the start of landing. I don't understand why this isn't made clear. Basically the runway was used against the design specifications.

That's not correct. A runway can be used in either direction, if you look on Google maps you can see the runway at Jeju has markings at both ends including a number (denoting it's compass heading) - both ends are usable. You always want to land with a headwind and never a tailwind, so ATC will use whichever end is favorable for the current conditions. In this case, if they attempted to land with a tailwind then the o…

> if you look on Google maps you can see the runway at Jeju

Do you mean at Muan?

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#122

Post by iso8859-1 »

looseyesterday wrote: post #5
Mistletoe wrote: post #4

I don’t know why people keep fixating on this. Airplanes can’t skid out of the airport into the surrounding city. Mistakes were made, but this isn’t one of them. I suspect it is people trying to deflect blame from pilot error, which seems by far the most likely issue. They did none of the things you should do to stop a plane.

You are probably right on pilot error, dont forget Boeing probably want this to be the story as well!

The 737 is one of the most popular aircraft in the world. It's had hundreds of incidents. There is no reason to think that there is any conspiracy going on, and there is not sufficient information to even think that any Boeing specific details were a factor in the incident.

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#123

Post by iso8859-1 »

f1shy wrote: post #71
underseacables wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did not bring the plane down safely! The pilot failed to lower the landing gear, or extend the flaps, both of which, for all intensive purposes were technologically possible. Multiple redundant systems for these. I think they completely lost situational awareness, and panicked.

They were with gear down, the retracted it, as part of the go around…

We don't know that for sure yet. The gear being down is based on an eyewitness report, as far as I understand from Juan Browne. The readout from the flight data recorder will provide a more trustworthy account.

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#124

Post by [deleted] »

K0balt wrote: post #39
gazchop wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already botched a gear down landing, which is almost never mentioned. They retracted the gear and did a teardrop go around from a headwind into a tailwind belly flop. Stinks of bad crew resource management and ATC which is why the ATC and airline for raided by SK officials.

We don’t know why the pilot elected to double back instead of go around. There may have been indications of a progressive failure that indicated that course of action, but it does seem hasty. That haste may have caused them to not be able to set up a stabilized, minimum speed approach, and may have contributed to the long touchdown, which certainly was a contributing factor. If there were significant winds it would h…

[deleted]

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#125

Post by shutupnerd0000 »

neom wrote: post #110
iso8859-1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"One strategy I use for my relationships with foreigners is to gently pat them on their heads if they understand me. That way, there is positive reinforcement and they are encouraged to improve their understanding." - this may very well be one of the most condescending and disrespectful things I've read on hackernews ever. Also, my wife has a PhD in American History from Yale and teaches at SUNY, I don't suspect she…

[flagged]

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#126

Post by bink »

ynniv wrote: post #108
blitzar wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause of death was impacting a concrete barrier.

Cause of death was landing halfway down a runway at high speed with no gear. Why were they cleared to land if they hadn't set flaps and locked gear? There was ocean in front of them both before and after their turn: landing there would have been more survivable than landing fast and hard with no gear. They were below minimum turnback altitude, and wouldn't have been able to complete the planned turn without the same…

They declared an emergency. It's typical in that scenario to be approved for whatever runway the pilot deems best... or golf course... or field.

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#127

Post by sio8ohPi »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #115
sio8ohPi wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that note. There's one "extreme caution" note but it's about some other obstacle 2.1NM from the threshold of runway 1.

> 1.3 Pilot shall use extreme caution during carrying out final approach into RWY 01 or missed approach or departure for RWY 19 due to obstacle located east of extended RWY at approximately 2.1 NM from threshold of RWY 01. it seems this is the same structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_Air_Flight_2216#Non-stand...

No. The ILS localizer was 260 meters from the threshold, not 2.1 NM (3800m).

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#128

Post by lmm »

loeg wrote: post #81
rich_sasha wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that the opposite direction had a NOTAM exclusion, i.e. was excluded from use. From the professional pilot forum linked a few days ago in a similar thread. If that's right then OP would be correct in saying, this direction wasn't meant to be used.

Ok but in an emergency all bets are off, the opposite direction is better than a crash landing. So you can't just assume 100% of landings are in one direction.

> Ok but in an emergency all bets are off, the opposite direction is better than a crash landing.

Sure, but so is a highway, or a river. Doesn't mean those should be built to runway standards.

Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?

#129

Post by iso8859-1 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #113
inoffensivename wrote: post #92

Lots of airports have obstacles not far from the end of the runway. Burbank, Midway, Orange County are a few that come to mind. Why did they need to land when they did? Why did they need to land so soon after the mayday call? (only 8 minutes from mayday to crash, as I understand it) Why couldn't they land on a longer runway? Why did they land so far down the runway? What forced them to land in a clean configuration?…

Were those obstacles installed by the airport though? I thought it was like stuff on land outside of the airport for those other examples.

The localizer antenna mount (the concrete) was inside the airport perimeter. See diagram:

https://multimedia.scmp.com/embeds/2024/world/skorea-crash/i...

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