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There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

benrady.com

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Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Money is the measure of usefulness?" Good lord. There's so much wrong with this statement that I doubt I can meaningfully respond to it. I'll try, though. If we have to reduce measures of usefulness to a single metric, then why not percentage of users who respond favorably? I daresay that people find air quite useful, and for the most part, air is free.

Easy -- users often don't respond favorably about MAJOR spending categories that are absolutely required. For example -- there's big negative sentiment about healthcare and its costs, but I rarely hear favorable responses like "thank you the country for we have healthcare". Or "thank you military that we haven't got invaded yet" (we are all users of the military). That doesn't depend on the country/region. "Users" ar…

Your obsession with framing everything in terms of money is quite remarkable.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#122
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a lot of the factors explicitly have nothing to do with general productivity at all, such as alignment. The goal with regards to selecting for productivity would be "someone who seems productive enough" but getting hung up on exactly how productive feels like a mistake, as aside from being unquantifiable, that isn't going to be the only or probably even main factor that decides the fate of the endeavor. Product…

I suppose the question is: can you supply a word you would use when deciding on who to hire for a technical role? Does anyone off the street contribute the same amount of that word, or would you be selective?

Isn't it obvious? Hiring people who are actually competent is hard. It's not just me, major corporations have found the same issue.

I do believe that you can use basic tests to determine whether someone has more technical competence than some random guy off the street, but it only works up to a point. If you try to test deeper and deeper knowledge, you might create a mirage where someone who isn't very competent appears competent because you just happen to hit on strong spots on their very sparse experience. (My imposter syndrome reasons that this is why I passed the Google interview so easily some years ago.)

But for example, interviews don't even really bother trying to determine any direct proxies for productivity. Usually, they just stick to trying to determine technical competence, communication, ability to work on a team, and evaluate their history of technical accomplishments. A list of accomplishments is evidence of productivity, to a degree, but not having a long list is not evidence of a lack of productivity, and neither will tell you what will actually happen when you hire the person. References will at least give you someone else's gut feelings (or lies) regarding someone's productivity, but any reasonably competent person is going to have people who can vouch for them even if their productivity is actually not very impressive. It's not like there's some huge punishment for embellishing someone when you're being interviewed as a reference for them.

In the context of hiring people, gut feelings are probably the best thing we have, but they're subject to horrendous bias. Even if you are highly enlightened and can recognize your own biases with a great degree of humility, this is not generally the case for most people. Because of that, Google's interviews have a lot of layers of abstraction designed to eliminate bias from the process, but then again, they also wound up doing a study where they hired people who were ultimately turned down for the job and found that those people had around the same chance at succeeding at Google as the people who were hired. (Can't find the source for this because Google Search is useless nowadays. Maybe their hiring process is to blame.) And yet, there's no doubt that even with this in mind bias will still impact the interviews, because the interviewer does ultimately have to transcribe the interview and they can choose to omit or paraphrase things in a way that makes it look worse to the committee overseeing things; likewise, you can "correct" what the person is saying if you felt it was "close enough", or omit entire segments that looked weaker. Sure, you're not supposed to, but I would bet you 10:1 that even people not intending to be biased wind up doing this. Maybe they're second-guessing themselves when they do it: was it my fault they didn't answer better? Were they saying it right all along and I just wasn't understanding?

I was actually involved in a lot of interviewing and hiring especially early on in my career. I still believe gut feeling was the best instinct I had, but there was a time when I didn't agree with a hire and was proven horrifically wrong very soon after. Granted, that mostly comes down to how you evaluate someone's technical competence, not necessarily productivity, but I think the point stands either way.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#124
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone can get numbers, but partial ordering is much easier. If Steve and Susan are in different part of organization, the answer is "cannot compare". If they are doing different job, the answer is the same. But every once in a while there is a scenarios when you can compare people easily. There has a weekly rotation to be an support person for other team. During his week, John always answers questions…

What your scenario doesn't address is that while John finished his migrations on time, James has designed the flagship order processing pipeline something that John could never pull off. Or maybe while John is technically adept, he's also a huge jerk and belittles people at standup, while James is the quintessential communicator with jr devs, etc. Real life is messy. I've seen more people get replaced due to attitude…

Your first scenario: possible, but quite unlikely. If James cannot even perform migrations without causing outages or dropping data, the chances are that "flagship order processing pipeline" he made is similarly bad, and even if it works, it's likely has outages and missing data. I've never seen a developer who can only do hard tasks but is genuinely bad at simple tasks (They may refuse to do those, but if they start on them they'll do them well.)

Your second scenario is unfortunately very likely, people are jerks, and if they are also high performers (or high bullshitters) then can get away with it.

Either way I fully agree one one should be firing/promoting people based on a single metric, even if that metric is very relevant to the job description. That doesn't mean that "there is no such thing", or that if you really need to get that DB migration done, you want to choose a "quintessential communicator with jr devs".

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#125
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the question is: can you supply a word you would use when deciding on who to hire for a technical role? Does anyone off the street contribute the same amount of that word, or would you be selective?

Isn't it obvious? Hiring people who are actually competent is hard. It's not just me, major corporations have found the same issue. I do believe that you can use basic tests to determine whether someone has more technical competence than some random guy off the street, but it only works up to a point. If you try to test deeper and deeper knowledge, you might create a mirage where someone who isn't very competent appe…

Sorry, that's a bit of a wall of text. I think the most salient thing to the topic I can pick out, without creating a corresponding wall of my own, is this:

> there was a time when I didn't agree with a hire and was proven horrifically wrong very soon after

Based on what? Did they turn out to be unproductive, but in a good way? What was that way?

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy -- users often don't respond favorably about MAJOR spending categories that are absolutely required. For example -- there's big negative sentiment about healthcare and its costs, but I rarely hear favorable responses like "thank you the country for we have healthcare". Or "thank you military that we haven't got invaded yet" (we are all users of the military). That doesn't depend on the country/region. "Users" ar…

Your obsession with framing everything in terms of money is quite remarkable.

Money is a bad measure of usefulness, but it's better than any other working measure.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#127

I realized why this post rubs me the wrong way. It complains, but doesn't offer a solution. It simply criticizes and says "all engineers cannot and thusly should not be measured". The ironic thing is, the blog post is implicitly measuring by not explicitly measuring. The measurement is the bug ticket itself and whatever value attached to it. But to this end, I generally agree. There are qualitative and quantitative m…

Why do you need to evaluate people constantly and pit them against each other ? Why not give a raise to everyone and see what happens ? It's how we sent rockets to the moon, it seemed to work ok.

Because the alternative is based on your manager's impressions. You get fired because "your manager doesn't like you." You get a promotion because "your manager likes you." Your coworker sits around doing very little and nobody notices for a few months.

Your company and boss is sued because someone says their firing was based on discrimination because they can't prove it was for performance.

The truth is that managers can suss out 90% of the problems without a number. However, we are asked to document the hell out of it if we want to do something about it. And twice in my career I've been wrong: I mistook someone who was quiet for not doing much until I dove into the work. I trust my gut, but I confirm with numbers.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#128
post #88
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, productivity it's not cut-n-dry stat, but it's not completely impossible to measure either. For a team, there are very clear goals: to make product that customers like, and to keep improving it for a long time. The last part is especially hard to measure, so people do all sorts of approximations, some very bad. For individual, productivity is measured on multiple axis - new long-term features, throw-away and pr…

For a team, there are very clear goals: to make product that customers like, ... With respect, that goal is far from clear. How do you measure how much they like the product? Have we achieved more "likes" this sprint than last? Customers like a product because it removes their problems. QED.

> With respect, that goal is far from clear. How do you measure how much they like the product?

Completely agree: focus groups, A/B testing, Net Promoter Score, 5-stars, like/dislike -- all of those systems are notorious for being unreliable in various ways, and optimizing for them is the cause of many sub-optimal decisions and Prisoner's Dilemmas in many industries.

> Customers like a product because it removes their problems. QED.

Your first point was "actually the world is really complicated" (strong agree) and your second was "actually the world is super simple" (strong disagree). Customers like products for wild reasons, unknown even to themselves. I've heard some slot-machine addicts get irritated if they win the jackpot, because it breaks them out of their state of flow. You could argue "well clearly that lack of flow was the problem slot machines are solving" but then you're just using circular reasoning: if a customer likes a product, it must be solving the problem for them that they previously did not have that product. I don't think you could have looked at the slot-machine addict a year before they started gambling and deduced that they had some sort of problem that slot machines needed to fill. There's often no clear link from a-priori diagnosable "problems" that people have to the products that they buy. In the universe populated by logical econs that do act this way, store shelves and advertising look very different.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#129
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is the measure of usefulness. By the way, why suddenly the money=bad sentiment is so popular? I thought USSR example loudly showed us what happens when people think that money is evil.

Suddenly? Who first said money was the root of all evil?

> The phrase "money is the root of all evil" is a common saying that originates from the Bible, specifically 1 Timothy 6:10, which actually states "For the love of money is the root of all evil," meaning it's not money itself that is evil, but the excessive desire for it and the actions people might take to acquire wealth that can lead to negative consequences like greed and unethical behavior.

We in our company don't do anything unethical nor unlawful, but love money very much, and are very glad other people find our work useful.

PS: Just remembered that many people who respect the Bible, for example members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, don't have any problems with money.

Re: There's No Such Thing as Software Productivity (2012)

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your obsession with framing everything in terms of money is quite remarkable.

Money is a bad measure of usefulness, but it's better than any other working measure.

Fascinating.

I disagree completely, of course. I imagine our backgrounds are wildly different.

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