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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#121

Post by AlotOfReading »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

Cruise and GM Supercruise/ultracruise share nothing except the names and a VP somewhere inside GM. Entirely separate organizations and tech, at least the last time I had any knowledge of the matter.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#122

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

genewitch wrote: post #84
correlator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that must have been a wild experience 10 years ago! Today, I think they should do this. It is rare I need to touch the wheel or pedal these days and people should experience it.

Come experience it between my house and walmart before you go telling people they need to experience it. Good luck having good weather during your drive, here in louisiana. Self driving probably works great on Interstates with numbers like 5, 10, and the feeders. Based on my experiences with subaru self driving and watching videos and watching tesla drivers around here, a self driving car would give up after maybe 3…

Are you from Houston originally, by chance, or from a part of western Louisiana? Anytime I hear the word “feeder” it’s a dead giveaway the person either grew up near Houston area or hung around there long enough to use this word in their lexicon

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#123

Post by kevindamm »

ketzo wrote: post #62
fixprix wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how Waymo is going to survive the onslaught that is CyberCab. Cheaper to build and operate, more efficient, much faster to build, and deployable across all cities without any manual configuration. The clock is ticking on Waymo, they have 2 years to figure out how to compete otherwise they're cooked. It's very similar to legacy space and internet, the existing players saw SpaceX coming years out, did nothi…

Isn’t it kinda the other way around? I feel like the clock starts the first time a CyberCab gives a paid passenger ride, and that seems like quite a ways out — potentially much more than 2 years. And Waymo has that whole time to bring down their costs of construction, learn how to solve problems of scale, and so on. I agree that a CyberCab would have structural advantages if the service were at parity w/ Waymo, but t…

More than that, even -- Waymo is already transitioning to having partners that do the operations & maintenance work while they focus on the tech. I read this as a confidence in the tech timeline, strategy, and maturity. Meanwhile, Tesla's strategy is "hype, ???, deal with it."

I know which one I'd back.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#124

Post by porphyra »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #121
rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

Cruise and GM Supercruise/ultracruise share nothing except the names and a VP somewhere inside GM. Entirely separate organizations and tech, at least the last time I had any knowledge of the matter.

Yeah and neither of them is close to FSD in capabilities lol. Super Cruise/Ultra Cruise is a brittle highway-only thing, only available in a handful of $200k+ GM cars, that works by localizing to a detailed lidar map of some interstate routes.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#125

Post by crazygringo »

jerlam wrote: post #29
rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

I am not sure you want to include international markets (if not the technology) but it seems like Baidu in China is nearly at par with Waymo: https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/cars/china-baidu-apollo-go-ro...

> Earlier this month, one robotaxi ran a red light and crashed into a pedestrian, state-run paper People’s Daily reported.

That doesn't sound like it's nearly at par.

I'd love to see some direct safety comparison stats.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#126

Post by upbeat_general »

boshalfoshal wrote: post #116
standardUser wrote: post #19

Waymo needs competition. Who else is even close to being able to provide it? I'd hate to think Tesla is next in line because they haven't even started a commercial pilot program yet.

I think it will be Tesla. Regulatory pressures for them just lifted, and they move faster than all the other driverless companies, courtesy of Elon's fairly hardcore mode of operation. It may not be a perfect driving solution (probably 1:1 teleoperator to car in the beginning), but their go to market speed is undeniably better than Waymo et al. Waymo, Cruise, etc have to map out an entire region and have long rollout…

Maybe I'm missing something but are there any current regulations that make it difficult to operate?

My understanding was that in many states, it's mostly just paper requirements and not any strict testing, etc.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#127

Post by [deleted] »

jaimex2 wrote: post #120
boshalfoshal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercruise might be comparable to Tesla's "Autosteer" product but its incomparable to Tesla's paid "FSD Supervised" product. The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist.

It's not even close between Tesla and Waymo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv9HtWUf27s Arguably this is Waymo in its "home turf"

[deleted]

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#128

Post by porphyra »

jefftk wrote: post #117
boshalfoshal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercruise might be comparable to Tesla's "Autosteer" product but its incomparable to Tesla's paid "FSD Supervised" product. The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist.

> The latter is closer to a Waymo or Cruise than it is to a Mercedes or GM driver assist. It depends how you look at it, but in the (super limited) cases where you can use Mercedes Drive Pilot you can legally and safely read a book, watch a movie, or work while in the driver's seat. [1] That's not the case with any Tesla product. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot

The MB Drive Pilot only works at ridiculously low speeds (under 40 mph), on select highways, no sharp turns, no weather, no construction zones, lanes clearly visible, etc. It's laughable to compare it against FSD which works everywhere. FSD has been flawless when driving on such easy conditions for years.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#129

Post by _ea1k »

axus wrote: post #41
chrchr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder how much more effective U.S. auto makers might be without the regulation that requires them to sell through dealerships.

Isn't Tesla service worse than the dealerships? Maybe things have changed, my opinion is completely based on what I've read on the Internet.

My dealer experiences have included hours to swap out a dome light under warranty, 1+ hours to do a software update, and a dealer trying to claim that the manufacturers automatic engine warranty extension didn't apply to my car. Also, misread a code and tried to charge >$1k for a repair that was actually part of the same warranty repair. These were separate brands and different ownership.

On top of that, one offered free oil changes for 12 months, IIRC. They'd regularly try to sell unneeded services on top of it (alignment after My experiences with Tesla have been imperfect, but vastly better by comparison. There are issues, but I'd take them over the dealer experiences 100% of the time.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#130

Post by crazygringo »

derektank wrote: post #104
fyrn_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no proof that tesla can make FSD work with the level of safety they would need for a robitaxi service. Especially with camera only. If they do pull that off, or are able pivot to a fused sensor architecture then I do think their hardware potential will make them a good competitor.

I agree completely with everything you've said, but it's worth keeping in mind that if legal/compliance requirements were to be loosened, a company could expand their offerings with a less robust safety record. And someone close to the incoming presidential administration would be in a position to influence what those requirements are.

> a company could expand their offerings with a less robust safety record

But would people take it?

I mean, if one service is 25% cheaper but there are a bunch of horror stories of their vehicles crashing into highway barriers (like this past October), I'm not sure people are going to get in.

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