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Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

windowsreport.com

121–130 of 270 posts

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#121

Browsers have such a low switching cost. I like Firefox because it has seemed aligned with me against web advertisements. Not even privacy, per se, but web advertisements specifically. If it stopped being that, I might as well go back to Chrome, which works a lot better on a lot of websites. Not saying Firefox is evil now, just saying there is nothing keeping me around if I get the sense that it's changing in ways I…

> which works a lot better on a lot of websites

Since you are said a lot of websites do you have any examples? I have actually encounter more problems with Safari than Firefox.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#122
Probably a stupid question, but why is it not possible for a browser to ignore cookies from a site where the user chose 'Do Not Track' then that's it, they can't have cookies, can't log in e.t.c alternatively a few white labeled cookies can be agreed upon as a standard e.g just to support maintaining logged in sessions

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#123
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love if the cookie modals on each site became browser-level They are, in a roundabout way. Hop into your uBlock Origin settings and enable the Cookie Banners and Annoyances filters. The modal gets silently nuked in the background and you can carry on with your browsing. Since you never consented, this ought to be functionally the same as Declining the banner. The Kill Sticky bookmark works similarly, for cr…

As long as someone who does this is prepared to pay for every site they do it on (or forgo the site in the future), since targeted advertising often pays for the site they're visiting. Personally I would like to see ads improved, not removed, as I am unwilling to have 40 different subscriptions to 40 different websites all because every user disabled targeting.

I guess we can look forward to a new "unbundling" campaign like they tried with video streaming services, targeting a paid umbrella subscription that covers multiple sites.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as someone who does this is prepared to pay for every site they do it on (or forgo the site in the future), since targeted advertising often pays for the site they're visiting. Personally I would like to see ads improved, not removed, as I am unwilling to have 40 different subscriptions to 40 different websites all because every user disabled targeting.

I agree that 40 different subscriptions is unreasonable. I use adblockers because I think user-hostile advertising is also unreasonable. I would happily pay a subscription that gets divided among whatever sites I visit. In the absence of that option, I pay for a subset of sites and freeload the rest. My solution seems ethical to me since if everybody picked a random subset, most sites would get their revenue.

I think your approach is reasonably ethical. I'm not all that concerned with ethics; rather the continued funding of the websites we like. One important element of your first hypothetical is that a donation model probably won't suffice, websites will need to be able to set their price based on their costs, so it can't be evenly split between the sites you visit.

So I think the experience would be like you add $5 to your browser, then as you visit sites it asks you either to pay a one time access fee or subscribe for continued access.

But this would be the case for every site, right, because they all cost money. I wonder how many distinct websites the average user visits and if they're willing to pay that many parties that much money.

I guess my conclusion here is that bad ads should be punished by some mechanism. Unfortunately making the most targeted, helpful (and they are helpful, by the way, when done right they show you something you like) ads often incentivizes bad ad production practices like data farming and data marketplaces. I think that has to be attacked legislatively or, in your example, by direct payment.

But I think the reality of an internet gated by payments is a bigger deal than people appreciate.

(PS Not that this is usually my line of argument, but it also has the unfortunate effect of tying someone's economic status to what they can access, leading to greater isolated groups and class hierarchies in content)

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#125

I was at Mozilla when this was implemented. It was completely optional for websites to support this. A few did at first. A lot of people internally wanted it to be on-by-default, but the argument was that if it was, nobody would respect it – after all, what tracking platform would willingly only track the 0.1% of people who went into the settings to enable it? (Internet Explorer did eventually enable it by default, w…

The legal situation has completely changed since then. By now, we have court cases punishing companies for ignoring the dnt signal. And with the gdpr there is a legal framework that makes this signal powerful anyway.

Removing this feature now is completely the wrong move. Instead Mozilla should have invested money to use the courts to make the signal be respected, where it isn't already.

For me, this signals that finally, Mozilla has completely crossed the line. I will look into forks now that retain the signal.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I would like to see ads improved Sure, sounds good. When you win that fight, let me know and I'll reconsider the ad blocker.

I doubt it. In my experience those that block ads feel entitled to the content without payment of any kind. They see ads as an intrusion rather than a fair exchange. No, I don't see you turning it back on regardless of how things go. The average user doesn't even recognize that running a website literally cost electricity that must be paid for. Who pays for it? Who will carry the boats?

If nobody wants to pay it is totally fine if they go out of business. A lot of the be things of today's internet are caused by sites being able to live off ads revenue.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#127
post #80

I was at Mozilla when this was implemented. It was completely optional for websites to support this. A few did at first. A lot of people internally wanted it to be on-by-default, but the argument was that if it was, nobody would respect it – after all, what tracking platform would willingly only track the 0.1% of people who went into the settings to enable it? (Internet Explorer did eventually enable it by default, w…

I fully agree and have said it for years. Microsoft is the main culprit of DNT failures.

DNT is a failure since it relies on advertiser self-regulation. We shouldn't ask them not to track us, we should make it very hard for them to do it.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#128
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love if the cookie modals on each site became browser-level They are, in a roundabout way. Hop into your uBlock Origin settings and enable the Cookie Banners and Annoyances filters. The modal gets silently nuked in the background and you can carry on with your browsing. Since you never consented, this ought to be functionally the same as Declining the banner. The Kill Sticky bookmark works similarly, for cr…

As long as someone who does this is prepared to pay for every site they do it on (or forgo the site in the future), since targeted advertising often pays for the site they're visiting. Personally I would like to see ads improved, not removed, as I am unwilling to have 40 different subscriptions to 40 different websites all because every user disabled targeting.

A Lot of us put our content/blogs up for free. I understand some people do this for a living but not everyone needs to go no the advertisement gravy-train

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#129
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I would like to see ads improved Sure, sounds good. When you win that fight, let me know and I'll reconsider the ad blocker.

Well at least you agree with the position that Ads is not inherently evil.

That is almost certainly the opinion of only a tiny loud minority. Most people who run adblockers do so to protect themselves from abusive ad practices, not all ads out of some moral reason.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#130
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love if the cookie modals on each site became browser-level They are, in a roundabout way. Hop into your uBlock Origin settings and enable the Cookie Banners and Annoyances filters. The modal gets silently nuked in the background and you can carry on with your browsing. Since you never consented, this ought to be functionally the same as Declining the banner. The Kill Sticky bookmark works similarly, for cr…

As long as someone who does this is prepared to pay for every site they do it on (or forgo the site in the future), since targeted advertising often pays for the site they're visiting. Personally I would like to see ads improved, not removed, as I am unwilling to have 40 different subscriptions to 40 different websites all because every user disabled targeting.

Have you considered why it's called an HTTP Request?

That's what it is. A request to get sent some bytes. It's up to the web server whether or not to send the bytes.

Once it decides to do so, what I choose to do with those bytes is, broadly speaking, up to me. Copyright sets some legal restrictions there, but none of those restrictions apply to deleting some of the bytes.

Perhaps the webmaster had some ambition to make some money by sticking some bytes on my computer and using them to track me without my consent. That's for them to decide, me? I'm deleting those bytes. That monetization plan is not in my interest. Perhaps they can come up with something which I'm willing to play along with, perhaps they can't.

Generally I've found that the websites which place onerous limits such as paywalls on byte access, are not worth spending my time on. Yet somehow, the Internet remains full of useful bytes and I spend many an hour productively browsing them. It's a magical place.

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