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Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

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Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#121
post #112
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "Amazing" comes to my mind. My guess is you wildly overstimate how much people care about what you care about.

Not sure why you think I'm talking for everyone. This is a forum for discussion, where people share their views and opinions, mine was that it's mediocre, yours was that it's amazing. That's the great thing about opinions, we all have them, and people who slate other peoples opinions tend to look a bit silly. Also if you read here, their own announcement blog post, X, Bluesky and Reddit you'll find theres a fair few…

> Not sure why you think I'm talking for everyone.

Fair enough. I still think "mediocre" is a strong word for a <$100 product that’s a real usable computer, with this form factor. For a first computer for example, it’s NOT mediocre.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#122
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where?

Here is an example [1]. When you factor out the pricefor PSU, Storage you will find that probably this is comparable or cheaper than PI 5. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-S12-Pro-Generation-Intel/dp/B...

Cheaper still, when the manufacturers Aliexpress store has a sale. I've seen them as low as $105 USD.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#123
post #19

A lot of scorn for this latest offering from Pi, but I think perspective is important here. No, most of us here do not have a use for the Pi 500 or it's display, but in part so the world where a lightweight low-consumption device can open some doors for connectivity and learning, this looks like a great solution. We tend to forget that not everyone on the planet has the same resources or needs we do.

>but in part so the world where a lightweight low-consumption device can open some doors for connectivity and learning, this looks like a great solution I hear this repeated over and over again in RPi threads, but nobody ever provides any proof of developing nations using RPis as affordable desktop computers apart from some PR articles every now and then involving partnerships and donations. This feels more of an opi…

Nah, the lack of hardware is a real problem in developing countries, and is something that OLPC and Raspberry Pi are well suited to solve. But hardware is the easy part -- the much harder part of the problem to solve is the lack of human capital in computing education, and that's the part of the equation OLPC missed.

For example, they sent hundreds of thousands of laptops to Uruguay, but they hardly got used for education because the teachers just simply didn't know how to use them or integrate them into the curriculum. But Uruguay continued the OLPC model under the Ceibal project, and it's only just now, ~15 years later, after teacher training regarding technology is far more widespread and teachers have far more experience in utilizing computers in the classroom, that it's starting to show effectiveness. And the OLPC model is considered a success in Uruguay, but it took over a decade of persistence to work itself out.

So this is actually something that RPi is tackling head on -- the Raspberry Pi Foundation is actually working hard to develop curriculums meant to address challenges in developing countries, like poor internet connectivity (which means a curriculum designed to be self-sufficient), and then also putting a lot of effort into training educators. This is before they even try sending Raspberry Pi's out, and largely is designed around using the already limited computing devices they have (not RPis) because a lot of those governments are unwilling to invest in computer education (because they have bigger problems to worry about and consider things like every student having a computer to be a luxury when nutrition is a more pressing matter on the quality of education).

Frankly, even the idea of "most people there use x86 PCs or laptops from the used market or rescued from e-waste imports and repaired because they're much cheaper" is a fair bit of a luxury and lacking understanding of the challenges of computing education in developing countries once you leave the cities and start looking at rural populations. In Mexico, nationally, 45% of households have a computer and 56% have an internet connection. Once you go to rural areas, that's ~20%. And that's before you consider socioeconomic status and the disparity in access to computers and internet. Some stats put the lower-income Mexicans at 5% computer ownership nationally.

In Rural Mexico, it's normal for a computer lab of 30-50 computers to serve a school of 500-1,000 students, or for schools to have NO computers and instead send students to nearby schools occasionally to utilize their larger computer labs for learning computer skills, and that's the only computer access they realistically have. This is really a great use case for RPi's, but like I said -- the hardware is the easy part to solve. The fact of the matter is if you sent a crate of RPi's or any other computer to these schools, they'd sit in the boxes for years because they don't have the infrastructure or the human resources to start using them. And that's actually the part that RPi Foundation is focusing on first.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#124
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that quote is a bit nuts. The reality is that the pi isn't a general educational product - it's a computing educational product. And that is fine. If a kid wants to learn about programming, about what goes on under the hood, it's a fine addition to their locked down school Chromebook.

>about what goes on under the hood But you can do that on a regular laptop/computer running Linux sine that's what RPi also runs. You don't need an additional RPi to learn what's under the hood of a device running Linux.

And that gets really, really complicated when you have 1 teacher and 200 students to teach that week, each with a different hardware configuration, differing skill levels, devices in various states of repair, etc.

RPi is pretty much the cheapest way to get a brand new, standardized device into the hands of each of 200 students, then give the same curriculum to each student that will work the same, with predictable errors the teacher is going to be more ready to troubleshoot, instead of trying to figure out why some kid's PC segfaults because of an error on a Broadcom device that was only available on devices manufactured in May of 2014 (but sold in September of 2017, the ones manufactured 05/2014 but sold before 9/2017 are perfectly fine) when he tries to use any function using sin in Python (but the libc one works just fine).

Schools have historically paid a premium for this, like the Basic Stamp, which was really just a PIC microcontroller preflashed with some other stuff on the PCB to help it run, and sold at a crazy markup, but was well integrated into a standard curriculum that gave every student the same starting point and something that a teacher could easily help hundreds of students with. It's also kind of why Arduino became so popular -- did the same thing, but a fraction of the cost.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#125
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even excusing used hardware you can litterally buy brand new ready to go windows based pc's in that price bracket. Prices from Pimoroni. The price of a Pi 500 is £84.60 for the unit + £11.40 for the PSU + £3.90 for a micro hdmi adaptor (which I'm adding because almost everyone will need one). Giving you a total of £99.90 plus shipping. You'll also probably need more storage as it only comes with the 32gb micro sd (do…

Right, but you’re missing the person I replied to, who was clearly referring to the used office PC market: > Any of the Lenovo or Dell mini pc's are cheaper (around £50-£70 depending on the model) on eBay

I am the person you replied to. And I have personally bought brand new Lenovo and Dell mini pc's on ebay in that price range. I only didn't mention them in the follow up comment as they are admittedly snapped up very quickly so you do need to be on it to grab one.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#126
post #49
post #42

In a world where N100 exists, only Zero and Nano Pis are interesting. The main/x00 lines are not good deals for desktop or self-hosting use. Not sure what the point the monitor makes.

N100 are at least twice as expensive.

~$100 is not twice more expensive than ~$100. Where are you getting your prices?

(See other replies to my comment for links & names)

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#127
post #48
post #42

In a world where N100 exists, only Zero and Nano Pis are interesting. The main/x00 lines are not good deals for desktop or self-hosting use. Not sure what the point the monitor makes.

Can you spec a N100 system with 8GB of RAM and at least 32 GB of (slow) SSD and land around the £100 / $120 price point of a Raspberry Pi 500 with 27W power adapter? Not to mention the GPIO header.

The other replies have covered your first paragraph. This is easy.

For tasks requiring GPIO, a Zero is usually more than enough, in my experience.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#128
post #19

A lot of scorn for this latest offering from Pi, but I think perspective is important here. No, most of us here do not have a use for the Pi 500 or it's display, but in part so the world where a lightweight low-consumption device can open some doors for connectivity and learning, this looks like a great solution. We tend to forget that not everyone on the planet has the same resources or needs we do.

I personally find this great option for doing hobby ARM development on UNIX like OS, or even playing with build your own ARM OS kind of thing.

My first computer had 48 KB of memory, folks don't have any idea of how much computing is wasted nowadays in their Electron garbage.

Re: Raspberry Pi 500 Review: The keyboard is the computer, again

#130
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but you’re missing the person I replied to, who was clearly referring to the used office PC market: > Any of the Lenovo or Dell mini pc's are cheaper (around £50-£70 depending on the model) on eBay

I am the person you replied to. And I have personally bought brand new Lenovo and Dell mini pc's on ebay in that price range. I only didn't mention them in the follow up comment as they are admittedly snapped up very quickly so you do need to be on it to grab one.

> I am the person you replied to.

Ah, apologies. Guess I missed that.

And I see, alright. I usually know of that range just for the used PCs or office clearance.

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