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An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

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Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#121
post #6

Feels like in some sections of the US like big tech, the talent vetting process has evolved into some adversarial battle of attrition where the idea is to grind down the pool of candidates until only a few are left rather than find some potential new colleagues. Tools like this have emerged as a direct response to that process. What a bizarre way to begin a working relationship.

The move away from on-the-job training has played a role. If a company doesn't provide any early guidance and mentorship (which everyone could use regardless of industry experience), then that has to be replaced by finding the perfect candidate who can immediately be productive.

> then that has to be replaced by finding the perfect candidate who can immediately be productive.

We're called freelance consultants. And we charge a high price for that service.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#122
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's much easier to get-by faking it as a software engineer compared to a lawyer or doctor. We've all have had these colleagues - and I've seen them jumping to other companies easily.

Doctors and lawyers build up immense amounts of "open-source" work that proves their skill. Almost everything a lawyer writes becomes public at some point. Doctors have patient results and billing records that can be checked on a reference call. Software engineers comparatively work in the dark and rely on softly-defined metrics.

I don't think patient results can legallay be shared (in the US) on a reference call with any specifics, and vague statements are no better or worse than a manager describing a dev's performance on projects.

And I'd be kind of surprised if a practice shared billing performance info. That'd be like sharing a tech support person's ticket close rate, but even more sensitive. Maybe at a very high level if HR isn't concerned with defamation claims?

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#123
post #6

Feels like in some sections of the US like big tech, the talent vetting process has evolved into some adversarial battle of attrition where the idea is to grind down the pool of candidates until only a few are left rather than find some potential new colleagues. Tools like this have emerged as a direct response to that process. What a bizarre way to begin a working relationship.

Literally all the engineers at the company went through the same process. For all the bitching and complaining an interviewee does, there’s probably a hundred people who just went through the process and got hired.

Suck it up, it’s part of the job. If you can’t do it, you don’t belong. Simple as that.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#124
post #16

Why bother with this style of interview where the candidate is under extreme time pressure and isn’t allowed to use any of the research tools they would normally use in their job? What is this controlling for? It barely made sense when these were conducted in person, and it’s completely inane over video meeting. Instead of grilling people, talk to them. Give them meaningful take-home exercises that you can discuss to…

Live interviews control for wasting the candidate time in a way that take home exercises don't.

Both the candidate and the interviewer need to take time out of their day for the interview. If it's an in-person interview, the candidate also takes travel time etc, which could be more disruptive.

But it takes almost no time to give a take home problem, so there's potential for a significant assymetry in time spent between candidate and employer.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#125
post #23

Just in case this repo isn't a joke and some job seekers are seriously thinking of this tactic... Companies already know about cheat methods like this and candidates still have to demonstrate skills in-person on a whiteboard in a 2nd round of tech interviews. A high-paying FAANG job isn't going to hire candidates based on just one remote Zoom tech interview. That still may not deter some folks and they'll try to cont…

The problem today is not that to get into FAANG you've got to jump through hoops and loops like a well-trained cage animal (aka fresh graduate) but that this is getting applied more and more to literally any startup under the sun, even some with 0 funding. As a first engineer for a tiny startup, show me some past projects and let's grab a (virtual) coffee talking tech, that's all. Now it's like McDonald's requesting…

> As a first engineer for a tiny startup, show me some

How do you expect startups to make money if you think they aren’t even legitimate to see you program during an interview?

Oh, right, you don’t care about your employer’s finances.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#126
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's much easier to get-by faking it as a software engineer compared to a lawyer or doctor. We've all have had these colleagues - and I've seen them jumping to other companies easily.

Doctors and lawyers build up immense amounts of "open-source" work that proves their skill. Almost everything a lawyer writes becomes public at some point. Doctors have patient results and billing records that can be checked on a reference call. Software engineers comparatively work in the dark and rely on softly-defined metrics.

[deleted]

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#127
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you want sympathy but it just shows that some people just don't understand the power dynamics of an interview. I believe live coding is a scourge and we should get rid of it altogether. Get a tiny open ended project, which requires more design/architecture skills than actually finishing the solution. You do it at your own time and shouldn't take more than 1-2h. You submit it and provide your mental pro…

The core issue here is the sheer volume of applicants. Microsoft opened 30 new-grad software engineering positions. Care to guess how many applications they got within 24 hours? 1,000? 10,000? Nope. 100,000 applications. In under a single day. With that kind of applicant pool, I’m honestly not sure what the best approach is—even though, in a perfect world, your suggestion would be the more appropriate route. The real…

Wow, 30 for all of Microsoft... they probably lose 30 people a month just from attrition!

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#128
post #6

Feels like in some sections of the US like big tech, the talent vetting process has evolved into some adversarial battle of attrition where the idea is to grind down the pool of candidates until only a few are left rather than find some potential new colleagues. Tools like this have emerged as a direct response to that process. What a bizarre way to begin a working relationship.

On one hand, that’s what it always was, by definition - a company is looking for the best candidates it can get with a given budget, and the best-case scenario for the company is there’s a large pool of candidates to choose from.

On the other hand, from my perspective and experience on both sides of the interview table, to me it seems like the perception that this is adversarial is coming primarily from young candidates whinging on the internet in large numbers about interviews being unfair or “broken” or doing it the wrong way. Every time this comes up on HN, there are hordes of comments demanding we stop whiteboarding in interviews, or claiming anything not exactly in the job description is out of bounds, or decrying the abuse that coding live inflicts. There are blog posts every week about how to fix the problem, where the problem is usually the interviewee’s comfort, and not the company’s efficiency or effectiveness.

The truth is that companies need people, and the employees there do want new colleagues. If you truly understand that, and also that the selection process is unavoidable and working as designed, then it will help you navigate the selection process and appeal to the company, it will help you get the job.

I’m well aware of the fears young candidates have, since I was one. Getting a job can be hard, and it might even be getting harder over time. But to me it’s also funny that software engineers looking for 6-figure salary jobs complain about interviews and competition and having to demo their skills for an hour or two. Don’t forget to look around at other industries and ask whether it’s really better over there. People in music and films and advertising and art have to grind for years, suffer low-wage or historically unpaid internships. Doctors have to do residency, grad school, and get licensed. Most people make less money, many people have to do labor. Most jobs have much bigger downsides than what we have to do in our interviews as software engineers.

We have opportunity and privilege and with the right practice and attitude and with reasonable expectations, it’s really not that hard to do well in interviews and land a good job. Many kids are hearing stories of FAANG and million dollar salaries and expecting to somehow land their first job out of school in one of the top 5 most coveted and competitive companies. I know this because I just spent a day at a university career fair a few weeks ago talking to hundreds of graduating seniors, most of whom are all expecting to shoot the moon for the same 3 jobs, and most of whom are not very eager to consider the idea of starting at a smaller company and working their way up for a few years. FAANG feels adversarial only because it’s actually legitimately super competitive, but as a candidate, figuring out how to have a non-adversarial approach is the key to getting the job. Tools like this are the opposite of what they need.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#129

How often do doctors have to prove they can still recall every obscure medical fact when changing hospitals? When a lawyer moves to a new firm, do they have to retake the bar or answer weird hypothetical cases all over again? Aren't their credentials, past cases, and reputation usually enough? Why do we in tech keep forcing experienced professionals to jump through these puzzle-like hoops instead of trusting their tr…

> "How often do doctors have to prove they can still recall every obscure medical fact when changing hospitals?"

Doctors go through 5-7 years of residency with long hours, low pay, and a full fledged physician watching them who can fail them. And that's after an undergraduate degree and medical school.

If you want to endure a 5 year miserable grind just to avoid interviews, go for it.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#130
For a while my company did aptitude tests that basically are measuring certain types of intelligence. I personally found a very good correlation between somebody doing well on those and them fitting into the team.

For some reason (legal?) we stopped and now we are doing interviews that have a way worse correlation.

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