Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would like to point out that the extreme poverty that India is known for today is pretty much a legacy of the British Raj. The 'enlightenment' you are talking about came much before that, when India was a much more peaceful and prosperous area. So the 'Out of necessity' argument you made is pointless.
I would like to point out that the extreme poverty that India is known for today is pretty much a legacy of the British Raj. Today (2012) is sixty-five years since the independence of India from British rule (1947). As an American, I have to agree with the general proposition that British colonial rule is not the best form of government, but as an observer of the great variety of former British colonies in the world…
A Dust Over India
121–130 of 325 posts
Re: A Dust Over India
#122Because India is close to the equator, the environment has a greater carrying capacity than the kinds of first-world, northern nations that the author is used to. Thus, for this reason alone, India is likely to have a different ratio of people to development, since less development is required to sustain one person's resource utilization. Contrast this to the US where much of the country is snow covered for 1/3 of th…
This comment says more about India than the original article. Corruption? America's as corrupt (it's not). Poverty? They don't need houses - it's always balmy. Terrible land rules? It's humanitarian. Terrible infrastructure? It's difficult. Garbage and pollution? Well don't breathe it! A (very wealthy) Indian relative of mine once explained to me that while Indians may come rich and poor they all have greater pride i…
Indians can indeed be very proud. We're always looking to blame the corrupt politicians, the system, but we forget that the people themselves form the system. But if an outsider points this out, we quickly get defensive and use and every counter-argument that we can. You will hear the success and achievements of Indians around the globe as proof that we're not that far behind. I've seen it far too many times. Startups claiming to be 'global', yet emphasizing their 'Indianness', a Indian actor getting 5 minutes of screen time on a Hollywood movie, or even Sunita Williams, who was born and raised in the United States. We are quick to take credit, yet get up-in-arms when someone points out our flaws.
Worse, when we do talk about those flaws, we don't necessarily do anything to fix them.
Re: A Dust Over India
#123Because India is close to the equator, the environment has a greater carrying capacity than the kinds of first-world, northern nations that the author is used to. Thus, for this reason alone, India is likely to have a different ratio of people to development, since less development is required to sustain one person's resource utilization. Contrast this to the US where much of the country is snow covered for 1/3 of th…
Yes India's government is corrupt, but not all that much more corrupt than the US government. Not really. The Transperency International which ranks countries by corruption ranks India at 95, where as U.S.A is ranked at 24[1]. Lower the rank less corrupt the country is. 1. http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
Have you considered a chance that the Transparency International may be corrupt?
Re: A Dust Over India
#124The mistake the author made is that he lived in India for three weeks. Had he stayed for six months or a year, he'd have been able to figure out what makes India tick - India is the very embodiment of clever innovation to survive - it will ask you very tough questions and it will compel you to innovate, often rapidly, just in order to survive - not even succeed. This, in India, is known as "jugaad". He missed the "ju…
> He missed the "jugaad" all around him - people, in their struggle for survival, do all sorts of things.
What a colossal waste of human resources.
Imagine if all those poor people were instead lifted up to the middle class so that they wouldn't have to focus on surviving each day, and could put that "jugaad" to something actually useful - research, science, arts, creating things and doing work that benefits others as well.
Re: A Dust Over India
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Yes India's government is corrupt, but not all that much more corrupt than the US government." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/world/asia/18iht-letter18.... http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2091100,00.htm... People are holding hunger strikes to stand up against the corruption. When was the last time that happened in the US? You are rationalizing away al…
> When was the last time that happened in the US? 1960's. No hunger strikes AFAIK, the 99% occupiers are our cultural equiv.
The 99% occupiers are a form of cargo cult. Sans a clearly defined specific goal it resembles pantomime. Soak the rich is not sufficient.
Re: A Dust Over India
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
The average Indian is likely making less than $2 a day [1] and likely illiterate with not having the ability to read or write ANYTHING[2]. Is a dirt poor, illiterate person "politically empowered"? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India (the numbers here are severely underrepresented - there is consensus among most NGOs that more than 50% illiteracy prevai…
Why does one have to be literate to be politically active? Do you think that most US voters base their political decisions (or their decision whether or not to vote) on something they read?
I don't know why this got down-voted to hell. You raise a very valid point. That democracy has to be representative is one of its basic tenets, and you cannot have that if you shut out a large fraction of your citizens. It is very patronizing to assume that the uneducated do not know what is good for them and the educated class knows what is better for them.
Re: A Dust Over India
#127I grew up in one of the biggest cities in India. If I was as good with words, this is exactly what I would write. Or maybe I wouldn't. The problem in discussing these issues with most Indians is that they quickly become defensive. Instead of acknowledging the facts (which is the fist step to finding a solution), the typical response you would receive is, "even in US there is poverty/crime/corruption... you are being…
Pretty much any nation with a modicum of pride in their populace will have people getting defensive if a foreigner criticises their nation. I can't think of many first-world nations where I haven't seen symptoms of this.
Re: A Dust Over India
#128The mistake the author made is that he lived in India for three weeks. Had he stayed for six months or a year, he'd have been able to figure out what makes India tick - India is the very embodiment of clever innovation to survive - it will ask you very tough questions and it will compel you to innovate, often rapidly, just in order to survive - not even succeed. This, in India, is known as "jugaad". He missed the "ju…
All the con men the author seen in India, they are all jugaads. His post mentions several types of jugaads he saw in India.
Do you realize that majority of Indian population has no jugaad to provide food for their family. Well we "The Pizza Hut Kings" choose to overlook it and pretend that everything works.
Re: A Dust Over India
#129Oh Jesus Christ... Not another one of these posts. Guys, why do you write posts like this knowing the end result?
Someone brings to light an obvious flaw in someone else's country, people from that country feel like it's a direct attack on them and come up with bullshit excuses, the bullshit annoys people and the whole conversation spirals into denials, "I'm not in denial"s, "what about your _____"s, and "that's not the same as ______"s being thrown back and forth.
Person A: Your country is shitty!
Person B: You don't understand us!
Person A: You're in denial.
Person B: What about your country?
Person A: At least we don't _______!
Person B: That's not the same as _______!
This is the worst way to criticize someone's country/behavoir/business. It's all logic, no emotion, and humans do NOT respond well to it.
When criticizing some else's country always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS include an equal list of good and bad otherwise it feels like an attack on that person's homeland. The whole point of criticizing someone is to help them see their flaws (which they've normalized to and are oblivious to) and get better, but they can't get better when they aren't listening to you, and they aren't going to listen to you if they feel you are attacking them, they will attack back.
Re: A Dust Over India
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. I travelled by bus for years when I was in school and college. There are definitely people hanging near the doors but nowhere as close as to what you mentioned in the picture.
> Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. The norm isn't too far from the exception. I spent 4 years in Chennai, and this was a common sight. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-4o_J8R8OVg/TIy3nfGUzdI/AAAAAAAAAo... Though I have never seen the bent buses in Bangalore yet in the 5 years I have been here. That is not to say public buses are pleasant here - you still deal with being densely packed with other commu…
I see that picture ever day in New Delhi (capital of India)