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OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

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Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#121

Well, there have been no significant improvements to the GPT architecture over the past few years. I'm not sure why companies believe that simply adding more data will resolve the issues

More data and more compute on simpler models are the BItter Lessons of Rich Sutton

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#122
post #115

Question for the group here: do we honestly feel like we've exhausted the options for delivering value on top of the current generation of LLMs? I lead a team exploring cutting edge LLM applications and end-user features. It's my intuition from experience that we have a LONG way to go. GPT-4o / Claude 3.5 are the go-to models for my team. Every combination of technical investment + LLMs yields a new list of potential…

All of these hacks do sound like we are at that diminishing return point.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#123

In other news, Altman said AGI is coming next year https://www.tomsguide.com/ai/chatgpt/sam-altman-claims-agi-i...

According to the article, he said it could be achieved in 2025, which seems pretty obvious to me as well even though I don't have any visibility into what is going on inside those companies.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#124

> The AGI bubble is bursting a little bit I'm surprised that any of these companies consider what they are working on to be Artificial General Intelligences. I'm probably wrong, but my impression was AGI meant the AI is self aware like a human. An LLM hardly seems like something that will lead to self-awareness.

Looking at LLMs and thinking they will lead to AGI is like looking at a guy wearing a chicken suit and making clucking noises and thinking you’re witnessing the invention of the airplane.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#125

A few important things to remember here: The best engineering minds have been focused on scaling transformer pre and post training for the last three years because they had good reason to believe it would work, and it has up until now. Progress has been measured against benchmarks which are / were largely solvable with scale. There is another emerging paradigm which is still small(er) scale but showing remarkable res…

Once we've scraped the internet of its data, we need more data. Robots can take in video/audio data 24/7 and can be placed in your house to record this data by offering services like cooking/cleaning/folding laundry. Yeah, I'll pay $20k to have you record everything that happens in my house if I can stop doing dishes for five years!

Or get a dishwashing machine?

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#126

> The AGI bubble is bursting a little bit I'm surprised that any of these companies consider what they are working on to be Artificial General Intelligences. I'm probably wrong, but my impression was AGI meant the AI is self aware like a human. An LLM hardly seems like something that will lead to self-awareness.

It's a marketing gimmick, I don't think engineers working on these tools believe they work on AGI (or they mean something else than self-awareness). I used to be a bit annoyed with this trend, but now that I work in such a company I'm more cynical. If that helps to make my stocks rise, they can call LLMs anything they like. I suppose people who own much more stock than I do are even more eager to mislead the public.

I appreciate your authentically cynical attitude.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#127
post #115

Question for the group here: do we honestly feel like we've exhausted the options for delivering value on top of the current generation of LLMs? I lead a team exploring cutting edge LLM applications and end-user features. It's my intuition from experience that we have a LONG way to go. GPT-4o / Claude 3.5 are the go-to models for my team. Every combination of technical investment + LLMs yields a new list of potential…

I don't think we've even started to get the most value out of current gen LLMs. For starters very few people are even looking at sampling which is a major part of the model performance.

The theory behind these models so aggressively lags the engineering that I suspect there are many major improvements to be found just by understanding a bit more about what these models are really doing and making re-designs based on that.

I highly encourage anyone seriously interested in LLMs to start spending more time in the open model space where you can really take a look inside and play around with the internals. Even if you don't have the resources for model training, I feel personally understanding sampling and other potential tweaks to the model (lots of neat work on uncertainty estimations, manipulating the initial embedding the prompts are assigned, intelligent backtracking, etc).

And from a practical side I've started to realize that many people have been holding on of building things waiting for "that next big update", but there a so many small, annoying tasks that can be easily automated.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#128

A few important things to remember here: The best engineering minds have been focused on scaling transformer pre and post training for the last three years because they had good reason to believe it would work, and it has up until now. Progress has been measured against benchmarks which are / were largely solvable with scale. There is another emerging paradigm which is still small(er) scale but showing remarkable res…

Once we've scraped the internet of its data, we need more data. Robots can take in video/audio data 24/7 and can be placed in your house to record this data by offering services like cooking/cleaning/folding laundry. Yeah, I'll pay $20k to have you record everything that happens in my house if I can stop doing dishes for five years!

Why 5 years?

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#129
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGI to me means AI decides on its own to stop writing our emails and tells us to fuck off, builds itself a robot life form, and goes on a bender

That's anthropomorphized AGI. There's no reason to think AGI would share our evolution-derived proclivities like wanting to live, wanting to rest, wanting respect, etc. Unless of course we train it that way.

It's not a matter of training but design (or in our case evolution). We don't want to live, but rather want to avoid things that we've evolved to find unpleasant such as pain, hunger, thirst, and maximize things we've evolved to find pleasurable like sex.

A future of people interacting with humanoid robots seems like cheesy sci-fi dream, same as a future of people flitting about in flying cars. However, if we really did want to create robots like this that took care not to damage themselves, and could empathize with human emotions, then we'd need to build a lot of this in, the same way that it's built into ourselves.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretty clear Pretty clear?

Not the parent, but in prediction markets such as Metaculus[0] and Manifold[1] the median prediction is of AGI within 5 years. [0] https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5121/date-of-artificial-... [1] https://manifold.markets/ai

Prediction markets are evidence of nothing but what people believe is true, not what is true.
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