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German coalition government collapses

euronews.com

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Re: German coalition government collapses

#121

Post by ziotom78 »

imtringued wrote: post #114
ziotom78 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the OP, but comparing the following news reveals a lot of bad ideology. https://www.politico.eu/article/nuclear-reactors-germany-inv... https://montelnews.com/news/652d5434-12f1-459b-bec5-8c1236f3...

Here are the devastating results of that bad ideology: https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/renewable_share/chart.... https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l... https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l... https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l... https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l...

These are not "the results", this is a particular aspect of the whole story. What about the price? The total energy in TWh?

(Spoiler: I checked these data in the same site you linked, and the ideology still looks bad.)

Re: German coalition government collapses

#122

Post by Yizahi »

greenavocado wrote: post #64
jalapenos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people. Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb? It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and buil…

I invite anybody to show me any credible evidence the immigration has a positive Net Present Value (NPV). The purpose was the destruction of the status quo, not improved tax revenues and GDP, but rather its replacement with a compliant, desperate, and above all else, an obedient population.

Poland saw net increase of GDP by 1-2% solely due to immigrants in 2023. And that number is from their own Warsaw institute, not some outside entity. In the same time period Poland saw immense monetary inflow from immigrants, who had to spend their money in the country, far more than any spending on those same immigrants.

And this is super short term data. Imagine how much better they are in long term, after assimilating and finding good jobs, founding businesses etc. Poland was losing population and in general not topping development charts, but immigrants fill this gap and boost the economy.

PS: an anecdote - I'm now an adult immigrant in Poland. I'm paying approximately 39.5% of tax now, a crazy rent to the Polish citizen landlord and all local products and services. I won't be eligible for Polish pension for two more decades, and after that I'll probably get some minimal one because I've started too late. I'm also paying some incredible sum to the healthcare system (included in those 39.5%) while not using it much. Statistically the most ill human groups are kids and elderly. Immigrants skip the kids stage themselves and elderly part is very far into future, so they are net gain in the healthcare system.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#123

Post by Tarsul »

PeterStuer wrote: post #112

As I understand Trump is more isolationist and less neo-con interventionist than Biden/Harris is. So why does the article state 'increased geo-political challanges' after a Trump win?

Because Europe cannot put trust in US help for Ukraine. Thus, Germany has to do more. (and they can only do more if they spend money and the [now ex-]finance minister does not want to) Also, if the US raises its tariffs wrt to Europe, then the German economy is in even more trouble.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#124

Post by amadeuspagel »

the5avage wrote: post #4

As a german imo the real problem is that we replaced reasoning with ideology. There are sometimes complex connections between cause and effect. It is not enough to just have the right intention.

No, it is this attitude, which was even reflected in the speeches the party leaders gave after the breakup, accusing each other of "ideology", that is the problem. Every single party in germany claims to stand for "reasoning", "pragmatism" and accuses others of "ideology". People brandmark anything they disagree with as ideology, as in "heizungsideologie" for example. (The idea that gas heating should be replaced with heay pumps.) Voting for people who are the quietest about expressing their own beliefs and loudest about denouncing other beliefs as "ideology" is exactly how germany got into this mess.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#125

Post by somedude895 »

qwertox wrote: post #92
0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was essentially the slogan of the current coalition and they failed completely.

"Schuldenbremse". "Debt"+"brake", brake as in what forces a car to stop. Keep in mind that Russian's attack on the Ukraine, which lead to the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline, didn't happen until after the election. I don't understand how people blend this out so easily. Let's assume your important car breaks down because of a strange, non-technical reason, which isn't covered by any insurance. If you don't ha…

> "Schuldenbremse". "Debt"+"brake", brake as in what forces a car to stop.

No. Schuldenbremse limits the amount of new debt that can be taken on per year. So the correct comparison is that it's a limit on how quickly the car can accelerate.

> Let's assume your important car breaks down because of a strange, non-technical reason, which isn't covered by any insurance. If you don't have enough money, you will have to borrow some, you will have to go into debt, unless you are able to reduce your expenses otherwise.

Again, no. Your example describes a one-time expense, and the German Schuldenbremse has exemptions for that. Increased military spending is a running expense, and if the energy price problem is to be solved through subsidies, that's also a running expense.

Germany has been gutting the military and breaking their obligations toward NATO for decades, believing that the US would forever be footing the bill. With that "peace" dividend – or rather, through their parasitic behaviour – they funded generous social programs. They can keep funding all of this by increasing debt (again: not a one-time increase, but debt increasing every year), like Argentina did. Or they can admit they have a structural problem and act in a fiscally responsible way, like Lindner was advocating for.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#126

Post by somedude895 »

nosianu wrote: post #15
killjoywashere wrote: post #9

So, destabilized democracies seems to be the theme of the early 21st century: the UK (Brexit), the US (twice) and now rumbles from Germany. Great

This is not destabilizing this democracy. The FDP has done that same thing before - twice! In 1966 and 1982. Abandoning a non-functioning government and calling new elections is part of democracies. Just ask the Italians (68 governments in 76 years), or recently the French and the Brits.

The coalition falling apart isn't really the problem. The problem is that with the strength of AfD and BSW, and the other parties' unwillingness to work with them, it will likely be impossible to form any coalition with a majority next year, which is sure to be destabilizing simply through how dysfunctional the government will be. Again.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#127

Post by pc86 »

gmueckl wrote: post #33
stickfigure wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of them was shot and more than 600 were sent to prison. Seems stable enough to me.

Stable democracies hand over to new governments without bloodshed. Any amount of violence in the process is too much to count as stable.

Stable democracies can preserve themselves even against undue influence. Even if you think Jan 6 was a carefully calculated and orchestrated attempt at a "kill the elected leaders and install sycophants in their place" style coup d'état - or perhaps especially if you think that - the result proved the US's stability.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#128

Post by mschuster91 »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #120
mschuster91 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of this addresses the problem of making reality illegal. Recognizing that trans people exist in reality and providing them legal backing for it is not new. Trans (or gender-nonconforming, third gender or whatever you want to call it) people have been a thing for millennia. Even back in old Greece their existence was recognized [1], the Talmud has regulations on their status in society [2], various Southern Asi…

>"Reality" is a societal definition Reality can be whatever crazy people want it to be

Given that I just posted evidence of non-binary people over millennia and at a large enough scale to warrant inclusion into legal systems, it's hard to call non-binary people "crazy" - they have always been a staple of humanity.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#129

Post by the5avage »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #124
the5avage wrote: post #4

As a german imo the real problem is that we replaced reasoning with ideology. There are sometimes complex connections between cause and effect. It is not enough to just have the right intention.

No, it is this attitude, which was even reflected in the speeches the party leaders gave after the breakup, accusing each other of "ideology", that is the problem. Every single party in germany claims to stand for "reasoning", "pragmatism" and accuses others of "ideology". People brandmark anything they disagree with as ideology, as in "heizungsideologie" for example. (The idea that gas heating should be replaced wit…

I think you have a very special definition of reasoning only you can understand.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#130

Post by cedws »

octacat wrote: post #63
probably_wrong wrote: post #25

If the future German Chancellor is here, here's my proposal for your new campaign: "We choose to build one million affordable apartments in four years, not because it's easy but because it's hard". It may not solve all of Germany's problems but at least you'll energize the construction sector, alleviate the housing crisis, learn how to finish a construction project on time and you'll have to remove some bureaucracy t…

People who already have property would not be happy because the government would spend huge money on a program they are not interested. And it could make the houses prices lower (which could be not popular for people, who already paying a loan). Would attract people who are renting though.

A sign of bureaucratic death spiral is when nothing gets done because someone would be upset.
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