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Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

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Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#121

Post by ksec »

jsnell wrote: post #4

I don't know that 37Signals counts as a "major enterprise". Their Cloud exodus can't have been more than a few dozen servers, right? Meanwhile AWS is growing at 20%/year, Azure at 33% and GCP at 35%. That doesn't seem compatible with any kind of major cloud repatriation trend.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers.

I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS. While I dont disagree AWS is charging a lot for their offering, putting AWS to other services isn't even a valid comparison.

Completely ignoring the basics such as Server / CPU / RAM / SSD quality. Network quality such as interconnect, redundancy, as well as Data Center quality. If you rally want to do simple price and spec comparison you might as well go to Lowendbox to find a low cost VPS which some people have been doing since 2008.

I really wish there is a middle ground somewhere before using Hyperscalers. Both DO / Linode couldn't reach a larger scale. Hetzner is expanding their Cloud offering only and no dedicated outside EU.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#122

Post by Dylan16807 »

discodave wrote: post #14
gonzo41 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree on IaaS/PaaS being the main driver. Id guess that everyone is running away from serverless offerings from all the main cloud providers. It's just day 1 lock in to a platform with no shared standards. It's very uncompetitive and kind of slow to innovate.

Amazon loves it when you run idle EC2 instances ($$$) rather than using Lambda. Most real workloads I've seen (at 3 startups, and several teams at Amazon) have utilization under 10%.

I think the solution to that problem is usually to have fewer and smaller EC2 instances.

And you only need to get utilization up to like 15% to make reserved instances significantly better than lambda.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#123

Post by vidarh »

siva7 wrote: post #119
vidarh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major companies aren't paying the headline rates. Even at 37 signals size you're paying negotiated rates. And 37 signals may not be a "major" organization to you, but they're bigger than the vast majority of companies.

They are certainly a household name in the startup community but they are not a major organization for the big three cloud providers. Why is this important? Because the headline claims falsely that major companies are ditching the cloud providers. I have insights into the decision process for a major organization moving to the cloud and the motivation why 37 would leave cloud are in no way comparable to that of a maj…

"major" is subjective. They are larger than the vast majority of companies. That makes them "major" to me at least.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#124

Post by thrw42A8N »

hggigg wrote: post #95
dhfuuvyvtt wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then there's me: never left the datacenter in the first place.

Wise person. Wish we hadn't. Managed to multiply costs 8x (no joke).

No way that is true if you did it properly. Practically nobody has a workload where this could be true - and it's definitely not a workload smaller than several DCs.

It doesn't work out well if you just create some long lived EC2 instances and call it a day. But that's not really using a cloud, just a VPS - and that has indeed never been cheaper than having your own servers. You need to go cloud native if you want to save money.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#125

Post by politelemon »

> For instance, companies can utilize cloud native NVMe-based storage solutions for their database or implement custom database hosting on cloud compute instances using Kubernetes, all while maintaining the cloud’s scalability and flexibility, avoiding any lock-in.

I will always dispute this. K8s is also a lock-in, it does not magically free you from issues, it only brings in a separate set of issues, overheads and problems.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#126

Post by ceejayoz »

ksec wrote: post #121
jsnell wrote: post #4

I don't know that 37Signals counts as a "major enterprise". Their Cloud exodus can't have been more than a few dozen servers, right? Meanwhile AWS is growing at 20%/year, Azure at 33% and GCP at 35%. That doesn't seem compatible with any kind of major cloud repatriation trend.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers. I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS.…

> 37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud.

Isn’t most of that just S3 storage/bandwidth?

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#127

Post by hggigg »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #124
hggigg wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wise person. Wish we hadn't. Managed to multiply costs 8x (no joke).

No way that is true if you did it properly. Practically nobody has a workload where this could be true - and it's definitely not a workload smaller than several DCs. It doesn't work out well if you just create some long lived EC2 instances and call it a day. But that's not really using a cloud, just a VPS - and that has indeed never been cheaper than having your own servers. You need to go cloud native if you want to…

It’s easy. Lift and shift, then fuck it up by not quite completely migrate everything to numerous badly managed kubernetes clusters. That’s what we did.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#128

Post by kasey_junk »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #124
hggigg wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wise person. Wish we hadn't. Managed to multiply costs 8x (no joke).

No way that is true if you did it properly. Practically nobody has a workload where this could be true - and it's definitely not a workload smaller than several DCs. It doesn't work out well if you just create some long lived EC2 instances and call it a day. But that's not really using a cloud, just a VPS - and that has indeed never been cheaper than having your own servers. You need to go cloud native if you want to…

Any egress heavy workload can quickly cost more on cloud than on prem. Especially if you’ve got consistent egress bandwidth that can be negotiated against.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#129

Post by RateMyPE »

ksec wrote: post #121
jsnell wrote: post #4

I don't know that 37Signals counts as a "major enterprise". Their Cloud exodus can't have been more than a few dozen servers, right? Meanwhile AWS is growing at 20%/year, Azure at 33% and GCP at 35%. That doesn't seem compatible with any kind of major cloud repatriation trend.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers. I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS.…

Yep, Hetzner, OVH or even DO aren't even close to offering what AWS offers. Once you start exploring all the things they have to offer you understand why so many large companies use hyperscalers.

Although to be fair, most hobbyists only need basic services like cloud servers/VMs, and hyperscalers like AWS are an awful deal compared to other options if you only need compute + storage + bandwidth. You don't need to use S3, Lambdas and Cloudfront to host a personal blog, a simple VPS will be more than enough.

It feels like most devs nowadays prefer using services that abstract away the infrastructure, at the cost of not developing SysOps skills, so I don't see a future where the Cloud is going to lose relevance.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#130

Post by silvestrov »

kuon wrote: post #61
ttt3ts wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I call BS on 100Gb uplink for $1000. I have racked a lot of servers at different data centers. No way.

I am in Switzerland where you have 25Gbit/s for about 70$/month so I understand that this might be an exception. But even if it is 10 000$/month, it is still widely cheaper than cloud bandwidth. https://www.init7.net/en/

Business pricelist as PDF: https://www.init7.net/de/angebot/business-internet/business_...

It's interesting as it seperately lists price for 24x7 support.

CHF 111 ≈ $129

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