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Wait Until 8th

waituntil8th.org

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Re: Wait Until 8th

#121

Post by legitster »

Parent here. This is a LOT easier today than it was 5-10 years ago.

It feels like there's been a generation divide where younger kids are not as insistent on smartphones as the older kids were. Maybe it was covid. But also there's a lot of negative sentiment even amongst kids about smartphones - that they are addictive, encourage anti-social behaviors, and enable bullying. "Brain-rot".

Our local school district banned phones during school hours just this last year and there has been an overwhelming positive sentiment from faculty and kids.

We don't otherwise do things like track screen time. Our kids have videogames and computers and tablets. But we're providing a dumbphone in late grade school and so far there are no protests to get anything else.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#122

Post by whstl »

brycethornton wrote: post #14

Apple Watches have been great for us. Both of my kids (ages 10 & 13) use a cellular Apple Watch which gives them a way to call/text with us and their friends but it doesn't give them access to social media. I know they'll want a phone soon (my youngest is already asking) but it's an easy "no" for us. I think waiting until around age 14 (or later) sounds about right. I'd like to delay even longer if possible. We'll se…

Not a kid anymore but I bought one for myself to reduce my own cell phone usage.

It's amazing.

I can pay for stuff, I can make calls, I can use maps, I can hear music, store my subway card QR-code.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#123

Post by asveikau »

zetazzed wrote: post #13

I'm still surprised the "dumb phone for kids" and "dumb watch with basic comms" markets are so underdeveloped (from my perspective). I would love my kids to have (a) gps tracking, (b) ability to send texts/calls to like 5 predefined numbers, (c) tell the time, and nothing else. But watches all seem to have games or weird gamified fitness trackers (Google's new fitbit for kids). Or they are super kid-ish, like bright…

My daughter has a normal android phone with Google Family Link and tons of builtin apps removed and websites blocked. The parental controls are pretty good.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#124

Post by miggol »

trump2025 wrote: post #82

IMHO, this feels like another wave of nannyism that follows after a new technology matures. Being a 90s kid, discovering porn, violence, warez were all normal part of growing up that I don't think has had any negative impact nor do the puritan panic about pornography. Matter of fact the internet started speedrunning censorship and monopolization post 9/11 without much of a fight and I think this triggered the default…

You're interpreting this as nannyism with respect to the internet as a whole, while I think the pledge is really just about smartphones. If kids want to go and watch gore and porn on their laptops they should be free to do so.

The smartphone that is always on, always fighting for your attention, and always in your pocket has proven to be harmful to the development of most children.

> What's more harmful is preventing discovering adaptation and self-balancing on their own in the face of endless entertainment wish diminishing value.

I really wish kids would still learn self-balancing on their own. But the odds are stacked against them in the current age. TikTok and Instagram have gotten too good at this, backed by teams of scientists and ML models working with passion to fight their self-control.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#125

Post by BeetleB »

trump2025 wrote: post #82

IMHO, this feels like another wave of nannyism that follows after a new technology matures. Being a 90s kid, discovering porn, violence, warez were all normal part of growing up that I don't think has had any negative impact nor do the puritan panic about pornography. Matter of fact the internet started speedrunning censorship and monopolization post 9/11 without much of a fight and I think this triggered the default…

I dunno. Growing up, both my parents and the society did moderate (i.e. censor) the content I had access to. As an adult, I'm definitely glad that this was kept away from me as a kid. I was a pretty reasonable kid, but I'm definitely not confident I would have handled it well.

That having access to (some) of those things was overall harmless doesn't seem to be a settled question.

With smartphones, the thing that stands out to me is a survey they did of parents. For those who gave their kids a smartphone before they turned 16, literally every parent regretted the decision (and some of them gave them the phone willingly).

Granted, N was probably not huge in that study, but it's a rare study that has no variance.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#126

Post by edm0nd »

trump2025 wrote: post #82

IMHO, this feels like another wave of nannyism that follows after a new technology matures. Being a 90s kid, discovering porn, violence, warez were all normal part of growing up that I don't think has had any negative impact nor do the puritan panic about pornography. Matter of fact the internet started speedrunning censorship and monopolization post 9/11 without much of a fight and I think this triggered the default…

Agreed its pure nannyism marketing and helicopter parents fueling such things.

Tubgirl, Goatse, LemonParty, Ebaumsworld, Rotten.com, LiveLeak had some of the most fucked up shit 90s teenage me could find and consume. Parental controls on electronics were an afterthought nor just didnt exist much then.

Its on parents to get involved if they want their kids to live in a safety bubble or like, you know, just have a conversation with them.

Honestly the 90s internet was peak internet imo, it was so pure and awesome. AOL, AIM, IRC, all the good times had. Captchas didnt even exist yet.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#127

Post by jrussino »

diputsmonro wrote: post #72

I know the site clarifies it, but the headline messaging on this is meaninglessly confusing. "Wait until 8th!" "Oh, you mean their 8th birthday?" "No, 8th grade!" "Oh, so wait until they're in 8th grade, got it!" "No no, until the end of the 8th grade, when they graduate middle school!" "Oh, so it's really wait until 9th" Just seems like this would be the beginning of every conversation and lead to a non-unified appr…

I really like this program but yeah, the very first time someone told me about it my initial reaction was "Wait until 8??? That's way too young!"

Re: Wait Until 8th

#128

Post by grecy »

talldayo wrote: post #71
grecy wrote: post #19

I remember recently reading about a town where all the parents in the entire town agreed not to give their kids smartphones, so then none felt they were missing out. I think that could work really well

I grew up in a town where kids used yo-yos as economic status symbols and needed adult chaperones to resolve Pokemon card trading disputes that ended up in tears. In my sophomore English class I watched two kids fight after one accused the other of wearing a fake designer sweatshirt. You can lead a horse away from water, but you can't stop it from getting thirsty. Reckoning with disparity is what helps kids grow up a…

> take the smartphones away and you're leaving them even less equipped to deal with modern life.

I grew up without a smartphone and have done just fine as a software engineer. I don’t think access to a smartphone before age 15 would correlate to better life outcomes.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#129

Post by johnny22 »

davidclark wrote: post #54
nvarsj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids entire social lives run on their phones. Covid accelerated this and pushed down the age for where this was true. Denying your kid a smart phone is basically denying them a social life nowadays. It simply doesn't work unless everyone does it.

This counterpoint feels like it needs just as much scrutiny as the position it’s refuting. Isn’t “but everyone else has one” the appeal kids make to their parents about most everything? (I know I was guilty of that as a kid myself) Why is this a new level of “denying them a social life”?

I grew up before smartphones and if somebody took away my very normal corded phone I would have definitely been had a much time communicating with my friends. I wouldn't have been happy about that at all. I did spend hours talking to friends perhaps even to the detriment of my studies.

What are we really trying to stop here? Are we really just trying to stop all the addicting apps? if so.. maybe we should be focusing on that at a higher level.

Re: Wait Until 8th

#130

Post by Aeolun »

adriand wrote: post #55
lairv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a different threshold for what they want from a dumb phone, some wants Google Maps, some think Youtube is ok, Google Chrome etc. which makes it hard to have a one true dumb phone. If you give access to the play store it's no longer a dumb phone The best way to have a dumb phone tailored to your needs is to take a cheap smartphone and make it dumb, either by using a different launcher, or a customized OS…

It’s true. My daughter didn’t have a phone until 9th grade, which she just started. She had talked about getting a dumb phone because she wasn’t very into the smartphone thing, which I was supportive of. However she now takes public transit to high school, and really wanted the Transit app so she could easily navigate in the city. So, an iPhone is where we landed. And I have to say, it is astounding how quickly that…

I only have to look at my own phone habits to know that expecting any better from my children is probably unreasonable.
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