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M4 MacBook Pro

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Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#121

Post by wtallis »

vid wrote: post #34
manaskarekar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M3 Max was 400GBps, this is 540GBps. Truly an outstanding case for unified memory. DDR5 doesn't come anywhere near.

It's not "DDR5" on its own, it's a few factors. Bandwidth (GB/s) = (Data Rate (MT/s) * Channel Width (bits) * Number of Channels) / 8 / 1000 (8800 MT/s * 64 bits * 8 channels) / 8 / 1000 = 563.2 GB/s This is still half the speed of a consumer NVidia card, but the large amounts of memory is great, if you don't mind running things more slowly and with fewer libraries.

> (8800 MT/s * 64 bits * 8 channels) / 8 / 1000 = 563.2 GB/s

Was this example intended to describe any particular device? Because I'm not aware of anything that operates at 8800 MT/s, especially not with 64-bit channels.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#122

Post by quux »

p_j_w wrote: post #99
aidenfoxivey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You totally can after a little bit of time waiting for M4 bringup! https://asahilinux.org It won't have all the niceties / hardware support of MacOS, but it seamlessly coexists with MacOS, can handle the GPU/CPU/RAM with no issues, and can provide you a good GNU/Linux environment.

Asahi doesn't work on M3 yet after a year. It's gonna be a bit before M4 support is here.

IIRC one of the major factors holding back M3 support was the lack of a M3 mini for use in their CI environment. Now that there's an M4 mini hopefully there aren't any obstacles to them adding M4 support

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#123

Post by fckgw »

MBCook wrote: post #88
jsheard wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every M-series device now comes with at least 16GB, except for the base iPad Pro, right?

At least all the M4 Macs. I’m not sure of every older M config has been updated, though at least some have been.

The only older configs that Apple sells are the M2 and M3 Airs, which were bumped. Everything else is now on M4, or didn't have an 8gb base config (Mac Studio, Mac Pro)

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#124

Post by manaskarekar »

Rohansi wrote: post #107
manaskarekar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M3 Max was 400GBps, this is 540GBps. Truly an outstanding case for unified memory. DDR5 doesn't come anywhere near.

Apple is using LPDDR5 for M3. The bandwidth doesn't come from unified memory - it comes from using many channels. You could get the same bandwidth or more with normal DDR5 modules if you could use 8 or more channels, but in the PC space you don't usually see more than 2 or 4 channels (only common for servers). Unrelated but unified memory is a strange buzzword being used by Apple. Their memory is no different than ot…

Yes, it's just easier to call it that without having to sprinkle asterisks at each mention of it :)

And yes, the impressive part is that this kind of bandwidth is hard to get on laptops. I suppose I should have been a bit more specific in my remark.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#125

Post by Spooky23 »

skellington wrote: post #91
efields wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hypothesis is Apple is mostly right about their base model offerings. > I mean, I have a MacBook air with 16gb of ram and it's honestly working pretty well to this day. I don't do "much" on it though but not many people do. If an HN user can get along with 16gb on their MacBook Air for the last X years, most users were able to get by with 8gb.

It's just a tactic to get a higher average price while being able to advertise a lower price. What makes it infuriating is memory is dirt cheap. That extra 8GB probably costs them $10 at most, but would add to utility and longevity of their hardware quite a bit. They are supposed to be "green" but they encourage obsolescence.

They align need with more CPU and margin. Apple wants as few SKUs as possible and as much margin as possible.

8GB is fine for most use cases. Part of my gig is managing a huge global enterprise with six figures of devices. Metrics demonstrate that the lower quartile is ok with 8GB, even now. Those devices are being retired as part of the normal lifecycle with 16GB, which is better.

Laptops are 2-6 year devices. Higher end devices always get replaced sooner - you buy a high end device because the productivity is worth spending $. Low end tend to live longer.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#126

Post by lowbloodsugar »

tomrod wrote: post #19

This is the first compelling Mac to me. I've used Macs for a few clients and muscle memory is very deeply ingrained for linux desktops. But with local LLMs finally on the verge of usability along with sufficient memory... I might need to make the jump! Wish I could spin up a Linux OS on the hardware though. Not a bright spot for me.

You can spin up a Unix OS. =) It’s even older than Linux.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#127

Post by hughrj »

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

IMO Apple Silicon is just that good; have played No Man’s Sky on a new MB Air 13” at 1080p and mid to high settings.

An MB Air with an M3 and no fan out gamed my old gtx 1080 box which stuttered on NMS size games all the time

Shows just how poorly Intel has done. That company should be razed to the ground figuratively and the infrastructure given to a new generation of chip makers; the last one is clearly out of their element

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#128

Post by 2wrist »

doctoboggan wrote: post #73

Does anyone know of any good deals on the older models of apple laptops? Now is usually a great time to purchase (a still very capable) older model.

The refurbished store is always a good place to have a look through.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#129

Post by OskarS »

carlgreene wrote: post #94

What’s amazing is that in the past I’ve felt the need to upgrade within a few years. New video format or more demanding music software is released that slows the machine down, or battery life craters. Well, I haven’t had even a tinge of feeling that I need to upgrade after getting my M1 Pro MBP. I can’t remember it ever skipping a beat running a serious Ableton project, or editing in Resolve. Can stuff be faster? Tec…

Yep, the same, M1 Pro from 2021. It's remarkable how snappy it still feels years later, and I still virtually never hear the fan. The M-series of chips is a really remarkable achievement in hardware.

Re: M4 MacBook Pro

#130

Post by thrownblown »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #76
tomrod wrote: post #19

This is the first compelling Mac to me. I've used Macs for a few clients and muscle memory is very deeply ingrained for linux desktops. But with local LLMs finally on the verge of usability along with sufficient memory... I might need to make the jump! Wish I could spin up a Linux OS on the hardware though. Not a bright spot for me.

Off topic, but I’m very interested in local LLMs. Could you point me in the right direction, both hardware specs and models?

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SillyTavernAI/
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