Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#121

Post by hindsightbias » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:45 PM UTC

nahname wrote: post #106

jasonkolb wrote: post #104

I normally don't participate in these threads, but I watched the interview yesterday and I think Steve Jobs did a masterful job of explaining this phenomenon and it is getting lost in this conversation. Fundamentally, and he talks about this, computer programming is a way of encapsulating _your thinking_ in code. You are transferring your thought processes into computer code. A computer program is, quite logically, a…

The hard problems in software are not adding features or coming up with crafty efficient solutions. That is actually quite easy and I am constantly surprised how mediocre to poor developers can consistently come up with workable solutions. The hard problem in software is writing code others can use. Everyone can write a solution that makes sense to themselves. Few can write one that makes sense to other developers. P…

The ultimate sophistication is simplicity.

Individuals, or small groups of them, do take precedence because they directly or indirectly make the major decisions. Teams of mostly C's usually don't know where they're going. Whether the team succeeds or not is dependent on if those few thinkers were really A's or just Type A.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#122

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:47 PM UTC

ivanvanderbyl wrote: post #87

TimGebhardt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake it 'til you make it. Throw yourself at problems that you think are over your head. If you care and you want to do good work you'll figure out a way to get something done. Especially if you have a good mentor or someone that can guide you to answers to hard questions or take you under their wing. Learn to effectively communicate and then communicate with your peers. You'll never know what you don't know unless yo…

That last bit is crucial - surround yourself with people smarter than you - otherwise you'll spend most of your time solving complex problems in inefficient ways, which could very much work against you.

Agree completely. The moment you can't learn from those surrounding you is when you start to stagnate.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#123

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:52 PM UTC

arthurrr wrote: post #119

dabent wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the top trait in A players is the same as in the top founders, which is determination [1]. That determination often manifests itself as the desire to understand how something really works, rather than glossing over the details, the drive to learn a new language well enough to use it to implement ideas, to take on the learning curve for a new tool or system, to automate something, or to test their code…

I don't really think determination is the magic ingredient. Personally I think the process of writing software is very similar to writing a song. (is anybody here also a songwriter)? Because if you try to write a song before you're ready, it just doesn't work no matter how hard you try, but once the idea has fully formed inside your head, it's as if the song writes itself, i think software is the same way. i remember…

That's a pretty romantic way of putting it, but I agree mostly. You're dead on about so-called 'A' players who have big egos and can't communicate or play well with others; They might even be 'A' in terms of technical expertise but that's not the whole picture.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#124

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:54 PM UTC

espeed wrote: post #105

oacgnol wrote: post #13

A bit of a meta question: As someone who feels like a 'B' or even 'C' at times, what would it take to become an 'A' player? Is it predicated on pure talent alone, hard work, or experience? Even though I know I'm still a junior developer (~1 yr exp), I feel hopeless at times that I'll never approach being 'A' status especially knowing that I have many peers my age that are already far and away better than me. How woul…

Focus on building understanding. In Coders At Work ( http://www.codersatwork.com ), Ken Thompson says, "When I was 30, 35 years old, I knew, in a deep sense, every line of code I ever wrote. I’d write a program during the day, and at night I’d sit there and walk through it line by line and find bugs. I’d go back the next day and, sure enough, it would be wrong." Building things without deep understanding may produce…

You could almost argue that those who put the time and work in, are by definition the 'A' players. Even if you're not top dog in terms of technical expertise; If you've got the hunger and passion to know more you'll almost certainly succeed over time.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#125

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 6:58 PM UTC

jasonkolb wrote: post #104

I normally don't participate in these threads, but I watched the interview yesterday and I think Steve Jobs did a masterful job of explaining this phenomenon and it is getting lost in this conversation. Fundamentally, and he talks about this, computer programming is a way of encapsulating _your thinking_ in code. You are transferring your thought processes into computer code. A computer program is, quite logically, a…

This. You've nailed it.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#126

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 7:01 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #109

jasonkolb wrote: post #104

I normally don't participate in these threads, but I watched the interview yesterday and I think Steve Jobs did a masterful job of explaining this phenomenon and it is getting lost in this conversation. Fundamentally, and he talks about this, computer programming is a way of encapsulating _your thinking_ in code. You are transferring your thought processes into computer code. A computer program is, quite logically, a…

I want to agree with you and with Steve. But when Steve says things like this "if you go to New York City and get an average taxi cab driver versus the best taxi cab driver, you’ll probably get to your destination with the best taxi driver 30% faster. And an automobile; What’s the difference between the average car and the best? Maybe 20% ? The best CD player versus the average CD player? Maybe 20%" I mean where is t…

This isn't quantifiable empirical evidence he's presenting. It's just what he's witnessed, and it's up to you to find out the same.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#127

Post by benlakey » Wed, Jul 04, 2012, 7:03 PM UTC

state wrote: post #27

zwieback wrote: post #12

We hear this a lot and somehow feel it's true but there are no reliable metrics and little verifiable data so ultimately it's just talk.

I agree. The more that this sentiment gets institutionalized the less value it has. Statements without a clear counterargument are always bothersome. Would someone like to make the argument for hiring B developers to build a great product? Jobs is great, but this is exactly the kind of quoting that I find really boring and annoying. As a side note, it looks like that video is also available on YouTube: http://www.you…

That's not the same video. It's a different interview entirely, from many many many years prior to the one referenced.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#128

Post by benlakey » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 1:29 AM UTC

fallous wrote: post #63

oacgnol wrote: post #13

A bit of a meta question: As someone who feels like a 'B' or even 'C' at times, what would it take to become an 'A' player? Is it predicated on pure talent alone, hard work, or experience? Even though I know I'm still a junior developer (~1 yr exp), I feel hopeless at times that I'll never approach being 'A' status especially knowing that I have many peers my age that are already far and away better than me. How woul…

Questioning yourself is the first instinct of an A player. They don't believe they have all the answers, they believe that they are frauds in a lot of ways because they see the large picture and realize that they cannot hope to know all that is required to be an expert in all areas. Instead they become proficient in understanding the thought-processes that lead to expertise in multiple "specialized" fields and apply…

Agreed. The moment you consider yourself at the top, you no longer are curious/hungry to learn more.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#129

Post by benlakey » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 1:29 AM UTC

jpalomaki wrote: post #67

oacgnol wrote: post #13

A bit of a meta question: As someone who feels like a 'B' or even 'C' at times, what would it take to become an 'A' player? Is it predicated on pure talent alone, hard work, or experience? Even though I know I'm still a junior developer (~1 yr exp), I feel hopeless at times that I'll never approach being 'A' status especially knowing that I have many peers my age that are already far and away better than me. How woul…

If I had to give one advice, I would say: "Always try to get to work with people who are more competent than you"

+1. Surround yourself with smart people always.

Re: Steve Jobs on Average vs Best Software Developers

#130

Post by benlakey » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 1:32 AM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #62

You can see the Lost Interviews on Youku: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU4OTExMjY0.html http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU4OTExNjEy.html http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU4OTExMzk2.html http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU4OTExMjIw.html http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU4OTEwOTcy.html ...

You can also see them here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008GJVAW4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...