Svelte 5 Released • Hacker News Board

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#121

Post by cageface » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:03 AM UTC

jwilber wrote: post #76

sansseriff wrote: post #25

Svelte 5 has been very nice to work with over the past few months. Yes, runes require you to think more carefully about lifecycles and updates. And you may end up writing a little more code initially than with svelte 4. But it serves you better in the long run with complex apps. I found a process for gradually turning a simple app into a more complex one that works for me. I iteratively move $state() runes out of .sv…

Just my personal opinion: I love svelte for small projects but the whole runes rewrite just feels so much less ergonomic. A step in the direction away from the simplicity that drew me to svelte in the first place. That said, there is backwards compatibility with the older syntax, so this isn’t a dealbreaker, and the team does a good job of explaining the reasons behind their selected design patterns. (Interestingly,…

This is more or less where I’ve landed lately. There are some things I really like in Svelte and Solid but not enough to overcome the massive ecosystem advantage React has.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#122

Post by esperent » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:09 AM UTC

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I'm building a React app from scratch and since I have control this time, I'm following a strict pattern: all data manipulation (∆) happens outside of React components, and the components themselves are as lightweight as possible.

I feel like this change suddenly makes everything about the React paradigm make sense - it can be just a view layer, and when used that way, it works great.

But I can't say I've ever worked on a React app that followed this this pattern before. Perhaps this is React's fault, or perhaps it would be the same with every framework once an app gets big enough (in my limited experience with Vue and Angular, those didn't seem any different from React in this regard).

(∆) By data, I mean the data that is fed into the app from the database. There's a certain amount of data generated internally by components, I write small functional functions at the top level or in the same folder as the components to handle that, but not placed inside the component itself, which is common practice but ends up creating these huge hard to parse components.*

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#123

Post by bufferoverflow » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:13 AM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #99

Considering trying out Vue or Svelte after working with React (hate react). Do they have a batteries included bootstrap with social auth?

I had to switch to Vue from React after switching jobs, and I gotta say, Vue is so much better in almost every aspect.

I won't choose React for my own projects again.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#124

Post by Aeolun » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:13 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #118

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I can’t speak for the majority, but for my team it’s because it’s not worth the distraction. We’ve got years of experience and tooling and “tradition” with one approach. Why do we want a second? It’s also just not an interesting issue. In my experience, the actual coding (and later maintenance) of a web application is the least challenging, least interesting part of the project. At that stage, all the interesting pro…

This sounds familiar. We know React, and while I’d dearly love more automatic performance, it’s not worth introducing a whole bunch of new complexity to do that.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#125

Post by burgerrito » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:25 AM UTC

gfs wrote: post #15

Where would one even start learning more about front-end development in today's world? Ignoring the dizzying amount of frameworks, how could I become knowledgeable enough to connect my back-end experience to design the "full stack?"

Just write Vanilla JS honestly. It's probably enough

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#126

Post by qudat » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:38 AM UTC

esperent wrote: post #122

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I'm building a React app from scratch and since I have control this time, I'm following a strict pattern: all data manipulation (∆) happens outside of React components, and the components themselves are as lightweight as possible. I feel like this change suddenly makes everything about the React paradigm make sense - it can be just a view layer, and when used that way, it works great. But I can't say I've ever worked…

I think that’s a smart approach. You might be interested in https://starfx.bower.sh which has similar design goals

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#127

Post by crowdyriver » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:58 AM UTC

nice and everything, but it still has plenty of performance issues and crashes with the tsserver. Using solid start because of that, tooling is not there yet.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#128

Post by russellpekala » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:11 AM UTC

If you like Svelte, Yuzu Health is hiring developers to work in Svelte in New York City. https://yuzu.health/careers/senior-software-engineer

Seems like the number of companies using Svelte in production is growing but still not super high.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#129

Post by troad » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:12 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #118

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I can’t speak for the majority, but for my team it’s because it’s not worth the distraction. We’ve got years of experience and tooling and “tradition” with one approach. Why do we want a second? It’s also just not an interesting issue. In my experience, the actual coding (and later maintenance) of a web application is the least challenging, least interesting part of the project. At that stage, all the interesting pro…

I really like this anecdote, and I very much think you're speaking for a lot of people here. Tech is tooling. Some people make a hobby out of the tooling, others merely use the tools to build something.

It's totally valid to make a hobby out of tools (e.g. motorcycles), but it's easy to end up with all sorts of highfalutin' opinions about how the tools must or must not be used, that hinge on minute distinctions that fundamentally don't matter to someone looking to merely use them as tools.

Re: Svelte 5 Released

#130

Post by VMtest » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:12 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #118

h_tbob wrote: post #98

I don't understand how React is so popular, still. With Svelte and Vue, I don't think anybody should do a new project with React.

I can’t speak for the majority, but for my team it’s because it’s not worth the distraction. We’ve got years of experience and tooling and “tradition” with one approach. Why do we want a second? It’s also just not an interesting issue. In my experience, the actual coding (and later maintenance) of a web application is the least challenging, least interesting part of the project. At that stage, all the interesting pro…

From users' point of view, they only care about the performance really

Some e-commerce apps use React in WebView on Android and the apps will become unresponsive after visiting several product pages (more than 10 probably). They have to be force closed and opened to be used again