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Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

cosmowenman.substack.com

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Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#121

Post by kergonath »

tshaddox wrote: post #96
thrance wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no supreme court in France, this is a gross mistranslation of "Court de Cassation", which is where you bring your case after you have lost your appeal, and is the last court where you can try to argue your point.

You’ve just described precisely what a supreme court is. This is definitely the supreme court of France.

The description was incomplete. The cour de cassation is not supreme at all, there are the Constitutional Council and the Court of Justice of the EU above it. As well as more specialised international courts like the European Court of Human Rights. There is a summary here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_of_France .

In any case, France has a civil law system; there cannot be a court as powerful as the Supreme Court of the US is. Viewing any of these institutions as similar to SCOTUS is bound to create a lot of confusion.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#122

Post by sokoloff »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #77
sokoloff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that with the advent/improvements in AR/VR that measuring the direct sales of scan data is the wrong way to look at the losses. If many people can experience a 75% compelling viewing of the bust (or the pyramids, Galapagos, Chichen Itza, etc.), the losses in tourism to those sites is far more than the lost sales of scan data.

I doubt it. People go to see the original Mona Lisa when they can own a reproduction for less than the cost of the flight. I don't see why those who would have gone to see it would suddenly accept a reproduction just because it's AR/VR.

There are hundreds of places I’d like to experience in my lifetime. I probably have the time left to go to perhaps 50 of them (max). Surely being able to experience some of those 300 in VR will affect my lifetime travel plans and I highly doubt that I’m alone.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#123

Post by SapporoChris »

rootusrootus wrote: post #120
t43562 wrote: post #115

There has to be a point where seeing things in the virtual world becomes "good enough" that we won't fly thousands of miles to do it. When I see some of the virtual reconstructions of Ancient Rome or Pompeii, I wonder if the real thing will be of less interest than the reconstituted, repaired one. I think this is normal - there are now billions of people in the world and only so much "great art". I was in a huge crow…

> There has to be a point where seeing things in the virtual world becomes "good enough" that we won't fly thousands of miles to do it. For certain things, I could see that. But for many things I go see, it's being there that is part of the point. Knowing that I'm seeing or touching the actual thing the artist saw and touched, or standing in a place where the builders worked build it, etc. Seeing a perfect representa…

It probably depends a lot on personality. For myself, I obsessively studied space exploration history as a child. When I was much older, I toured National Air and Space Museum in District of Columbia and found it terribly boring, no new knowledge, nothing I hadn't read about before.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#124

Post by rootusrootus »

holowoodman wrote: post #91
tomrod wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the standard Music Industry response to Napster, alive and well decades later. "Make the information hard to get! We own it!" Never realizing that sampling of the information makes it just that much more prestigious and desirable to us, the unwashed masses, willing to pay to visit a museum that has AMAZING ORIGINAL THINGS. If you start with the assumption that every view is a lost sale, you're going to have a rea…

Actually, imho, the AMAZING ORIGINAL THINGS are actually useless. You can not touch them, get close, rotate them, look at them properly, take your time. You are just number 29387 that day visiting the Mona Lisa, you get 5s to view it, then the line moves on. A high-res photo or 3d-scan allows you to do all those things (maybe except really touching them). So aside from the emotional benefit of having been near the re…

When we were there, I took a picture of the Mona Lisa strictly for the crowd in the foreground. To capture the memory of the stupid number of people who seemingly only come to the museum to see that one piece of art.

Then we went and spent a few hours enjoying the rest of the museum, where there is plenty of art I appreciated more.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#125

Post by t43562 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #120
t43562 wrote: post #115

There has to be a point where seeing things in the virtual world becomes "good enough" that we won't fly thousands of miles to do it. When I see some of the virtual reconstructions of Ancient Rome or Pompeii, I wonder if the real thing will be of less interest than the reconstituted, repaired one. I think this is normal - there are now billions of people in the world and only so much "great art". I was in a huge crow…

> There has to be a point where seeing things in the virtual world becomes "good enough" that we won't fly thousands of miles to do it. For certain things, I could see that. But for many things I go see, it's being there that is part of the point. Knowing that I'm seeing or touching the actual thing the artist saw and touched, or standing in a place where the builders worked build it, etc. Seeing a perfect representa…

I half agree, but I've been to a few of these things and it's all somewhat debatable because you're not really supposed to touch, or there are millions of people and you can't just sit and enjoy, or you don't know enough about them to understand deeply what you are seeing.

Ruined cities really don't look or feel anything like what they were. You miss an incredible amount by not being able to see them as the inhabitants would have. On the other hand you see the countryside and when that hasn't changed (e.g. the sea moving out) you get a feeling of context but .... even that is odd when the original people that lived there are long gone and a totally different culture has supplanted them. You smell the smells of the plants at least and that's good.

OTOH I can imagine the virtual part of this becoming incredibly good - with smell and touch even. Imagine lying in your Roman house in Pompeii and eating dinner while reclining. Listening to the street noise outside while enjoying the garden in your courtyard? I can imagine putting yourself inside the historical context to a degree that would require an extreme feat of imagination in the real place.

With paintings it's just the crowd, often being on your feet and the comical way in which one's favorite painting turns out to be tiny in real life and much worse than the print for that reason.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#126

Post by [deleted] »

myrmidon wrote: post #48

This is utterly puzzling to me. I just don't understand how you sit on the museums side of the trial on this, without seriously questioning your own position and conceding immediately. They were basically arguing that they are entitled to hide those scan artifacts to better protect their gift shop?! How can they even reconcile those arguments with preserving the artists legacy/serving the common good? I'm also surpri…

[deleted]

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#127

Post by [deleted] »

t43562 wrote: post #115

There has to be a point where seeing things in the virtual world becomes "good enough" that we won't fly thousands of miles to do it. When I see some of the virtual reconstructions of Ancient Rome or Pompeii, I wonder if the real thing will be of less interest than the reconstituted, repaired one. I think this is normal - there are now billions of people in the world and only so much "great art". I was in a huge crow…

[deleted]

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#128

Post by BlueTemplar »

immibis wrote: post #103
marcinzm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to benefit large corporations at the expense of smaller artists. Either you focus on making money or some large corporation will swoop in the second you can't and exploit your work for their own profit.

Presumably, once the copyright is allowed to expire, it can't be sold and then reinstated. I'm okay with large corporations pouring their money at the government to keep copyrights for useless things alive, even if it means we can't legally copy useless things for a bit longer.

Wouldn't they then buy it just before expiration ?

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#129

Post by hotspot_one »

tshaddox wrote: post #96
thrance wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no supreme court in France, this is a gross mistranslation of "Court de Cassation", which is where you bring your case after you have lost your appeal, and is the last court where you can try to argue your point.

You’ve just described precisely what a supreme court is. This is definitely the supreme court of France.

"a" vs "the".

"The" supreme court, if one assumes a US-centric definition, comes with a lot of assumptions on the nature of law and the power structure of the various government branches. Which generally do not hold outside of the US and certainly not in France.

So yes, it is "a" supreme court, but that doesn't really help understanding, because it is not "the" supreme court.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#130

Post by rpigab »

RansomStark wrote: post #107
rpigab wrote: post #104

I am a French taxpayer. This is not the most outrageous thing about taxpayer money at work that I learned today. That would be the fact that local branches of the ministry of agriculture require wind turbine builders to put blue dyed water in concrete to make it friendly to all life or something, I'm not sure I understand, it's called Pneumatit®, and I'm not making this up. It's biodynamics, it's biogeology (neither…

> It's homeopathy for concrete you're really not joking Pneumatit® is a liquid additive that permanently anchors a fine biological activity (liveliness) in the concrete Many people experience adverse effects that come from concrete - regardless of the design. This ranges from slightly subliminal discomfort to irritability, inner cold sensations, joint pain, exhaustion and organic disorders. Underlying such sensations…

Oh how I wish I was joking.

This stuff is apparently made from small bird femurs and nautilus shells grounded into powder, then add water, then diluted a million times so that they can sell olympic pools of the thing without running out of raw material. It's textbook homeopathic dilution.

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