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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#121

Post by metadaemon »

bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

Conversely there is a gym in my town that was a month to month subscription with moments notice cancellation. They'd even pro-rate your remaining time back to you. I ended up joining and cancelling those gyms a lot through college years, but I'm much more willing to rejoin if it was easy to cancel.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#122

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

high_na_euv wrote: post #15
hypercube33 wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is the best thing if it changes the worst experience I've had cancelling something - Gyms. They make it crazy easy to sign up, but a pain in the ass to stop being a member (for example, if you move and forget to cancel good luck - they want you to come in and talk to the manager in a lot of cases)

How did it even evolve into such a mess? Cannot you just go to random gym, pay for enterance and do ya thing without signing stuff?

Depends on the gym. Some do not allow it at all unless you sign up for some type of membership - or they tell you to do a free trial, take your billing info, and hope you forget to cancel.

The alternative I've commonly seen is they do offer a day pass, but it's basically the cost of an entire month to go even one time, while also making it extremely inconvenient by having to sign a bunch of forms every single time you go. This makes it so nobody except maybe a tourist/non-local would ever consider this option.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#123

Post by ARandomerDude »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #62
minkzilla wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posted elsewhere in this thread but here is the reasoning why from Melissa Holyoak, who voted no. This rule goes further than just the cancellation mentioned in this article and there are some legitimate concerns with that. It is unclear but I think Melissa Holyoak would have voted yes if it was just the cancellation rule. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/holyoak-dissent...

[flagged]

This is why you shouldn't let ChatGPT do your thinking for you. Skimming is an important art.

Her basic points are:

1. The FTC doesn't have the authority to make this rule, and in government there must be a hard line between "I want this" and "this is legal" unless you want a dictatorship.

2. The reason the FTC has so many Congressionally-enacted laws to follow is because of a history of overstepping its legal authority. The more they push the boundary, the less authority the FTC will have in the long-run.

3. The rule is too broad. Broad regulation is bad because it leaves too much legal wiggle-room for violators with deep pockets and smart lawyers. At the same time, small businesses who may be acting legitimately can't know they'll be accused of violating overly broad rules, or afford to defend themselves if they draw government scrutiny.

4. The FTC has a specific procedure it needs to follow for making a rule but they didn't follow that procedure.

5. Because of the above, the rule will be challenged by BigCo and struck down in court, wasting time and harming the FTC's reputation.

I'm hopeful about a "Click to Cancel" future (who wouldn't be?) but it's pretty hard to dismiss those points as "typical pro-business grift".

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#124

Post by llamaimperative »

admissionsguy wrote: post #111
Hasu wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not able to cancel a subscription easily after you willingly enter into a relationship with some business is too tiny an issue to merit expanding the government monster. So in your world, I have to protect my credit card details from all evil people in the world forever (and also somehow prevent them from acquiring companies that I've previously given my details to), because it's okay for a company to keep charging…

In my world, you generate a single purpose card number for each subscription, or block the company at the bank level. My world is all about personal responsibility.

> In my world, you generate a single purpose card number for each subscription, or block the company at the bank level.

You know this isn't a legal way to terminate a contractual agreement with a company, right?

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#125

Post by shepherdjerred »

krunck wrote: post #74
amatecha wrote: post #67

Nice. I canceled a service recently and I had to "continue to cancel" and click on other such "confirmations" such that I think I proceeded through 7-8 pages before my subscription was actually canceled. Truly manipulative and obtuse. That was Spotify btw. I should have recorded the process, as it was nearly comedic (if it weren't so hostile).

Amazon is the worst in this regard.

You should try cancelling the New York Times, Bon Appetite, or Planet Fitness

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#126

Post by sickofparadox »

jodrellblank wrote: post #109
sickofparadox wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know better than the people that voted for their own state government so I am going to force my will upon them." Mindsets like this are actually why democracies fail.

I'm downvoting this comment chain because you're just throwing low effort critiques without addressing any of the big points. 1) why is tens of millions of people in a state enforcing the will of the majority on the others fine but hundreds of millions of people in the country enforcing the will of the majority on others "not caring about the consent of the governed" and "the reason democracies fail"? 2) why is it ok…

>why is tens of millions of people in a state enforcing the will of the majority on the others fine but hundreds of millions of people in the country enforcing the will of the majority on others "not caring about the consent of the governed" and "the reason democracies fail"?-

Because we aren't a unitary democracy, we are a federal republic that was built upon the idea of a limited federal government designed to address pressing national issues, with "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The will of the people state should almost always be superior to the will of the federal government. There needs to be an exceedingly pressing and relevant reason that any law, let alone one made by unelected bureaucrats, should overrule any of a state's laws. There is no exceedingly pressing reason the federal government should be involving itself in the process of canceling an auto renewing contract.

>"why is it okay that people should have to vote on whether others can prey on them, exploit and abuse them"

A company making it slightly annoying to leave an agreement with them is not being preyed on, exploited, or abused. That kind of language to describe "sitting on the phone longer than I want to cancel my paper subscription" or similar is bordering on histrionic.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#127

Post by hackernewds »

bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

[flagged]

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#128

Post by lelandfe »

bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

I recommend asking your neighborhood/city subreddit for gyms that aren't awful when cancelling

I just had the pleasure of a one email cancellation with my gym after moving

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#129

Post by alwayslikethis »

croes wrote: post #97
schmookeeg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came to say this too, basically. The FTC is currently a bright candle in the swamp. I think we need a word for this work. Maybe disenshittification? :)

I doubt it will stay that way if Trump gets a 2nd term.

fwiw JD Vance has voiced support a few times for keeping Lina Khan who is pushing a lot of this agenda.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#130

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

If you setup a "payment agreement" between yourself, the gym (or any similar service), and your credit card, you should be able to cancel that agreement and the subsequent services that agreement entailed through your credit card. The byzantine and manipulative things that gyms do are, in part, because we basically let them control the cancellation process.
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