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Rio: Web apps in pure Python

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Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#121

Post by afavour »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #108
afavour wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO you either need to go all in or not at all. And by all in I mean your "web page" is nothing but a tag and your non-web framework is handling basically everything. It's an unholy nightmare for many reasons but it would at least allow you to make a reliable self-contained system. "We'll take your native constructs and jimmy them into some bastardized HTML" is almost always full of razor-sharp edge cases.

How does a screen reader interact with one of these canvas pages?

That would be one of the entries in the "unholy nightmare" bullet list.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#122

Post by pier25 »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #49
red_hare wrote: post #24

These frameworks are cute, and I understand the desire to avoid the modern SPA JavaScript build systems, but it always seems like so much more work than just writing HTML. I swear, HTML/CSS + Flask + HTMX gets you so far these days. Then, you can throw in some AlpineJS for any inter-element interaction you need and build a responsive SPA without almost any JavaScript.

Alpine is great for your blog, but it's not even a little bit tempting for real world professional projects. Looking back at every project I've worked on there's no shot I would ever select Alpine for any of them. These type of condescending comments really scream "I'm not even a web developer but here's my strong opinion as someone who only makes toy front ends to demo my data work"

Back in the day we did plenty of "real world professional projects" with jQuery.

I don't see why you couldn't with Alpine.

Yeah at some point you may need a more sophisticated solution but plenty of projects don't need React. This very forum you're using is just a very simple vanilla js file.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#123

Post by robertoandred »

beretguy wrote: post #119
robertoandred wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flask + HTMX + AlpineJS always seem like so much more work than just writing JavaScript.

All of it is so much more work compared to PHP + HTML + CSS (and no JS).

Is it? Why spend so much time learning PHP when you can just use JS?

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#124

Post by DrillShopper »

thunky wrote: post #120
darepublic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok that's great. I guess I'm just skeptical you won't have to either A. Settle for premade layouts B. Learn some CSS like specification of custom styles. And that is where you get sucked into the rabbit hole

> Settle for premade layouts Just think of how many man years we could have saved if we did this.

And think of how many man centuries we could have saved if we were okay with a page refresh

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#125

Post by mixmastamyk »

quantadev wrote: post #109

The biggest tragedy in the history of software engineering was back in the mid 1990s when they failed to get Java (Applets) to run in the browser so they had to invent JavaScript, which was purely nothing but a hack put together over a weekend by one guy and it "stuck" like napalm onto humanity and has been burning us ever since. I would say at least one billion man hours (100 billion? Trillion?) has been wasted tryi…

Applets did run in the browser, I wrote a couple.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#126

Post by amelius »

thunky wrote: post #120
darepublic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok that's great. I guess I'm just skeptical you won't have to either A. Settle for premade layouts B. Learn some CSS like specification of custom styles. And that is where you get sucked into the rabbit hole

> Settle for premade layouts Just think of how many man years we could have saved if we did this.

We will save man-years, because an LLM will do that.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#127

Post by ramesh31 »

pier25 wrote: post #122
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine is great for your blog, but it's not even a little bit tempting for real world professional projects. Looking back at every project I've worked on there's no shot I would ever select Alpine for any of them. These type of condescending comments really scream "I'm not even a web developer but here's my strong opinion as someone who only makes toy front ends to demo my data work"

Back in the day we did plenty of "real world professional projects" with jQuery. I don't see why you couldn't with Alpine. Yeah at some point you may need a more sophisticated solution but plenty of projects don't need React. This very forum you're using is just a very simple vanilla js file.

>Back in the day we did plenty of "real world professional projects" with jQuery.

And they were terribly unperformant, bug ridden, messes of spaghetti that I wouldn't wish on anyone in the year 2024. Things evolved past that for a reason.

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#129

Post by Sn3llius »

darepublic wrote: post #84
bityard wrote: post #83

It's a bit sad that most of the comments here are negative. Most of them seem to be some variation of, "Nobody needs a tool like this, all you have to do is simply dedicate yourself to multiple years of writing corporate CRUD apps in both vanilla soul-crushing Javascript and web frameworks. You know, like I did." So, I am the target audience of this. I have a LOT of experience writing tools and automation and that is…

Ok that's great. I guess I'm just skeptical you won't have to either A. Settle for premade layouts B. Learn some CSS like specification of custom styles. And that is where you get sucked into the rabbit hole

Nope! No premade layouts, and not a single line CSS. Give it a shot :)

Re: Rio: Web apps in pure Python

#130

Post by Sn3llius »

bityard wrote: post #83

It's a bit sad that most of the comments here are negative. Most of them seem to be some variation of, "Nobody needs a tool like this, all you have to do is simply dedicate yourself to multiple years of writing corporate CRUD apps in both vanilla soul-crushing Javascript and web frameworks. You know, like I did." So, I am the target audience of this. I have a LOT of experience writing tools and automation and that is…

Thank you so much for the kind words! It's always great to read messages like this.

I can't wait to hear your feedback

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