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The Future of European Competitiveness

commission.europa.eu

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Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#121

Post by Hoasi »

silvestrov wrote: post #84

I'm reading the document a bit different. It is not so much about lack of competitiveness as it is about centralizing policy making and power in the EU organization, aka "all problems can be solved by giving EU institutions dictorial power over everything". E.g. making sure all military purchases are done centrally (aka EU army). All the text about GDP, R&D and AI is just window dressing for this goal. --- The summar…

What an interesting—and I believe valid—take.

Whether this is intentional by the document's authors or not doesn't matter. The outcome is likely more undemocratic centralization of power, forcing policies people do not want under the guise of competitive efficiency.

You could say it's better than rallying people against an inexistent threat. Besides, you could also argue that Europeans do not necessarily want to be more competitive.

While the relative benefits of a large market and (relative) peace are a consensus, the rest of the European project is opaque at best and only reflects the aspirations of a few people living in a bubble.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#122

Post by sofixa »

Aerroon wrote: post #93
lsy wrote: post #14

I suspect it is actually a great strength of Europe that the attitude towards regulation (to put it perhaps overly simplistically, favoring more intangible rights over economic growth) precludes hype and bubble phenomena like the mentioned "creation of large, integrated data sets" or "young, innovative tech companies". This means that business, at least to some extent, is forced to address real-world issues and work…

> This means that business, at least to some extent, is forced to address real-world issues and work at a more local level. What is seen as "innovative" in the US is typically merely rent-seeking or parasitic on the broader society, and it seems likely that slower, more measured growth is consistent with better outcomes overall. He says, on an American website, that he accessed through a browser made by an American c…

> Why is there no European Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon, Tencent, Sony etc? All the stuff is foreign, which means that we're constantly following foreign rules based on their culture. And slowly they have more become our rules and culture, because there were no real European alternatives.

Philips (mostly Signify and co, but the brand is still Philips), Airbus (top 1 airplane manufacturer), VW Group, Stellantis, reMarkable, a ton of neobanks/fintechs the US could only dream of (Revolut, Monzo, N26, Bunq, Adyen to name but a few), Doctolib, Backmarket, Spotify (top music streaming platform in the world), Dassault Systemes (top industrial CAD), Amadeus (top 2 airline booking software), Booking.com, Ericsson (top 2 5G equipment provider), SAP (top 2 ERP provider), STMicro, NXP, Infineon (top semiconductor manufacturers for everything not on the cutting edge of personal/server computing), Zeiss (top 1 optics manufacturer), etc etc etc etc

It's not that there are none, it's that the new ones (some of which are extremely good) haven't grown to super high valuations yet.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#123

Post by djhn »

aesch wrote: post #89
gota wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rosy in comparison to the rest of the world - maybe Rosy in comparison to 1976~2000 - no I'm under the impression it's been (sort of) proven (but I have no source) that the major reason for 'college kids complaining' is precisely because of the perceived loss in quality of life, purchasing power and access to {healtchare, safety, community, third spaces} when compared to prior generations

I'm glad you mentioned 'perceived' loss in quality of life. I think that is what is being argued, does the perception meet the reality? It could be that the major reason for 'college kids perception of loss in quality of life' is that the rise of ad-driven media, as opposed to the previous generation's subscription model, leads to more sensationalized news to drive clicks. Combine that with online forums (echo chambe…

To me it seems that even software engineers and bankers in US and UK, at least those who don’t have parental support, will struggle to ever attain the things that are achievable to moderately ambitious european kids from the lowest wealth and income deciles at 25-30 in a wide range of professions: 40 hour workweeks, comfortable middle class lifestyle, home ownership in appreciating, investment grade old real estate in historical city centres.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#124

Post by vaylian »

unmole wrote: post #112
vaylian wrote: post #46

> Europe has abruptly lost its most important supplier of energy, Russia That's a very short and simplistic way to put it. We didn't lose Russia as a supplier. We chose to largely cut our economic ties with a nation that commits war crimes on a massive scale and that threatens the security of Ukraine and other European nations.

The end result is still the same: Europe has abruptly lost its most important supplier of energy, Russia

It's not a loss. It is a deliberate termination of the economic relationship by the EU. It would have been a loss if Russia terminated the economic relationship from their side.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#125

Post by unmole »

vaylian wrote: post #124
unmole wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end result is still the same: Europe has abruptly lost its most important supplier of energy, Russia

It's not a loss. It is a deliberate termination of the economic relationship by the EU. It would have been a loss if Russia terminated the economic relationship from their side.

Mario Draghi disagrees.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#126

Post by moi2388 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #94
throwaway48540 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. "Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw. Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.

I do. Most people I talk to are doing fine. Nothing close to what you described.

In the Netherlands alone, a country with 18 million people, more than 1 million people need food stamps to survive.

I do not consider that “fine” at all.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#127

Post by throwaway48540 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #105
throwaway48540 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "doing fine", please. These people think they are doing fine. If you think this is not usual, why is 15% of my state population in irrecoverable debt?

Doing fine as in they own the place they live in with their families in reasonable comfort and dignity? If that is not fine, what is fine then?

So 15% of population in irrecoverable debt is fine? I don't think so. Every place has rich people and they are fine wherever they are - not really interesting or surprising.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#128

Post by moi2388 »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #90
7bit wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. Because anecdotal evidence is better than empirically researched data? LOL

Empirically researched data would be better - if people went and read the study in detail and saw that the questions asked don't lead to the conclusion that they claim, such as this case. They read a headline or check a sheet of numbers and think they understand the world. Since people are apparently unable to do that, talking to people is the next best thing.

If people are unable to get the results from a study, but get confused by a headline, what makes you think they’ll be able to draw correct statistical conclusions from talking to a couple of people with inherent bias and small sample size?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#129

Post by throwaway48540 »

moi2388 wrote: post #128
throwaway48540 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empirically researched data would be better - if people went and read the study in detail and saw that the questions asked don't lead to the conclusion that they claim, such as this case. They read a headline or check a sheet of numbers and think they understand the world. Since people are apparently unable to do that, talking to people is the next best thing.

If people are unable to get the results from a study, but get confused by a headline, what makes you think they’ll be able to draw correct statistical conclusions from talking to a couple of people with inherent bias and small sample size?

People are social creatures, and if they see first hand that the world doesn't match their expectations, it might get them to think about it in more detail.
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