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Dynamicland 2024

dynamicland.org

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Re: Dynamicland 2024

#121

Post by rtkwe »

modeless wrote: post #47
bsimpson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not OCR. Those colored dots along the periphery are fiducials. They're how Realtalk recognizes a program. Every object that you can interact with in Realtalk has a unique set of fiducials. When the camera sees one, it looks up its behavior and projects it accordingly.

So if you physically copy and paste code, or edit it with a pen, that won't work, right? The embodiment feels superficial.

Cameras good enough to do that kind of work aren't really available right now. It does still make the code more accessible by making it immediately visible on the object so if you want to know how a thing works you can just pick it up.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#122

Post by max-ibel »

sedatk wrote: post #78
shoxidizer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest instead convincing every printer manufacturer to embed in every printer a routine that encodes a unique identifier on every print and then reading that using more typical cameras. The hard part has already been done. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots

Oh, that’s why my HP inkjet refuses to print a black & white page when it’s low on yellow.

If you are happy to live with B&W printing for your untraceable printing needs, maybe you can fill the yellow cartridge with clear ink (not sure if water is OK).

But then, how do B&W laser printer allow for tracing ?

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#123

Post by rtkwe »

This feels like something you could get a whole lot more traction and experimentation in quickly if it also existed as a room in something like VRChat or added to people's rooms in a VR passthrough mode. You'd lose some of the benefits of being in a shared physical space but you would also lose some of the limitations around the tracking resolution and stability of the fiducial markers on the page and open it up to people who can't make it to the location in person.

A 2.0 version could even merge the two versions slightly, tracking irl people into the virtual space (with pose and position estimates?) and programs (? I don't know the lingo off hand, but I mean the paper sheets everything revolves around) and in the opposite direction project the programs from VR onto the real table.

I've been interested in it for years so I'm very glad to see it's still moving forwards and alive. There were years where I couldn't find any actual new information coming out of the project.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#124

Post by i_am_jl »

rtkwe wrote: post #123

This feels like something you could get a whole lot more traction and experimentation in quickly if it also existed as a room in something like VRChat or added to people's rooms in a VR passthrough mode. You'd lose some of the benefits of being in a shared physical space but you would also lose some of the limitations around the tracking resolution and stability of the fiducial markers on the page and open it up to p…

> if it also existed as a room in something like VRChat or added to people's rooms in a VR passthrough mode

I dunno. Someone in VR can't manipulate the same physical objects that people in the real world can. You are forced to compromise physicality so that VR users aren't second-class users, or you build two different experiences for VR and non-VR users which goes against the idea of a shared experience.

I think what you're describing has value, but I also think you're removing the fundamental piece of what makes this unique and special.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#126

Post by andsoitis »

karaterobot wrote: post #106
sigmonsays wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that approach seems so off... i'm curious how it's justified. like countless hundreds of quotes on execution vs ideas, here is one: "Ideas don’t make you rich. The correct execution of ideas does." anyways, i'm gonna spend a little more time this evening to really dig in.

I assume his point is that he's not going to be able to execute on all his ideas anyway, so why not make them free to people who might? If the idea succeeds, the benefit to him is a better world, while the cost is nothing. It's a positive-sum proposition, what's not to like?

> If the idea succeeds, the benefit to him is a better world, while the cost is nothing. It's a positive-sum proposition, what's not to like?

I am unaware of any of the ideas having been picked up and productized. I might be mistaken.

However, if I'm correct, then the thing that could be better is picking ideas that have a high chance of being selected, everything else being equal.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#127

Post by rtkwe »

i_am_jl wrote: post #124
rtkwe wrote: post #123

This feels like something you could get a whole lot more traction and experimentation in quickly if it also existed as a room in something like VRChat or added to people's rooms in a VR passthrough mode. You'd lose some of the benefits of being in a shared physical space but you would also lose some of the limitations around the tracking resolution and stability of the fiducial markers on the page and open it up to p…

> if it also existed as a room in something like VRChat or added to people's rooms in a VR passthrough mode I dunno. Someone in VR can't manipulate the same physical objects that people in the real world can. You are forced to compromise physicality so that VR users aren't second-class users, or you build two different experiences for VR and non-VR users which goes against the idea of a shared experience. I think wha…

Yeah the VR to physical is a limitation for sure, there are things like omnidirectional conveyors [0] that could make it possible for virtual users to move the physical program cards, at least around a flat table. It's also not a problem in a purely virtual version.

I do get that it's a bit of a side step but it's also currently completely inaccessible unless you happen to be a part of one of the labs it's moved to since the other public space closed during the COVID shutdowns. Right now there's not even a physical space one could go to if they could make the trek out, unless I'm misreading the intro video.

Also I hate to see the neat idea of RealTalkOS locked into probable obscurity because Bret's wholistic vision requires very expensive physical spaces when we could build and improve the tech at the core of it until projectors and cameras get cheaper than the 50-200 USD per sq foot some more open implementations estimate for costs.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAokGOEjAFs

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#128

Post by Jerrrrrrry »

sedatk wrote: post #78
shoxidizer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest instead convincing every printer manufacturer to embed in every printer a routine that encodes a unique identifier on every print and then reading that using more typical cameras. The hard part has already been done. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots

Oh, that’s why my HP inkjet refuses to print a black & white page when it’s low on yellow.

There is a few bits you can flip on the Firmware side to fix that.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#129

Post by Jerrrrrrry »

jf wrote: post #85
shoxidizer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it would very difficult to read these dots from a distance and dynamically. I just mention it because most printed documents already have indentifiers printed on them that don't require seeing individual fibers.

Ah, noted! With that in mind, did you know that those printer dots are what the team that won the 2011 DARPA Shredder Challenge used to win? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Shredder_Challenge_2011 Fun fact: Otavio Good, who led the winning team, learned about the printer dots on this very site. As I recall, he said that the dots were like a map that let them reconstruct the shredded documents.

I would had thought, even then, that this was not only commonly known, but not the sole only annulment/rule among a generally "rules-free" competition, having been rather obvious, especially to the audience these competitions attract.

Thank you for reminding me, and others, how immediate and obvious success can be.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#130

Post by akerr »

dack wrote: post #16

i'm always super impressed by brett victor and highly admire his work. that said, I have to admit that it doesn't really feel "right" based on what I've seen. there's so many limitations to the physical world that a virtual space doesn't have. i get that physical objects can participate in the UI and that arranging things in 3D space is sometimes nicer than using a mouse/keyboard. However, the fact that there is stil…

He worked on the Touch Bar for Apple so I guess ideas don't always work out.
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