Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader • Hacker News Board

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#121

Post by boomboomsubban » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 2:35 AM UTC

_cs2017_ wrote: post #60

boomboomsubban wrote: post #36

I'm not defending Iran over this, I fully expect his imprisonment to be for a reason I would consider bullshit, but this article doesn't present much evidence that the two events in the title have any connection. He tweeted a dot, at some point after was arrested. Technically the article never says the dot is related to the arrest, but it's certainly implied.

Does it mean that for getting high quality news, NPR has become just as garbage as an average media outlet?

I don't think their willingness to trumpet Voice of America is anything new, and I more wonder why Voice of America want to make this story about a dot tweet.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#122

Post by hollerith » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 2:50 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #118

hollerith wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the glorious revolution that is also called the Bloodless Revolution?

The deposition of James II and VII (same person, different kingdoms) in November 1688 was a singular event that followed the wider 1639 to 1653 Wars of the Three Kingdoms, which included The English Civil War (a series of civil wars and political machinations from 1642 to 1651) A singular action with no bloodshed that followed a period in which bodies were stacked high, including over a hundred thousand non combat ci…

My point is the having already mentioned the English Civil War (which I concede was quite bloody) the comment I replied to goes on to mention the Glorious Revolution, which (even if we adopt your definition) is double counting.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#123

Post by fsckboy » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 2:53 AM UTC

Hizonner wrote: post #37

fsckboy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general, users never face fines in the US even for visiting "banned" pages. You might be oversimplifying. Yes, the US does have particularly free speech, and especially for listening to it. But using kiddie porn sites, president threatening sites, ISIS recruiting sites, US govt leaked secrets sharing sites, perhaps ghost gun or bomb making sites, stalking ex girlfriends... I think a good bit of that has legal co…

The only one of those that's illegal just to visit in the US as far as I know is the child porn one, and even that only if you receive or attempt to receive actual child porn, as opposed to some other random content that might be on the site. Some of the things you list are actual criminal acts, not Web sites. Yes, if you stalk your ex, that's criminal, but simply visiting some Web site is not in itself illegal. If t…

if you internet searched "how do you dispose of a body" and then a body is discoved having been disposed of, and you are suspected in the killing, that evidence is introduced at your trial, and a jury will be influenced by it, even though all you did was visit and read the site. That evidence will be even more damning if the page you visited described a particular method that was seen in the case in question. This would be very strong evidence in favor of your guilt. Same for all the other ones I mentioned.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#124

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 2:53 AM UTC

mapt wrote: post #54

christiangenco wrote: post #26

I've been thinking a lot recently about where I would personally draw the line on what sorts of speech should be criminal. If someone publicly called for specific violence (ex: "let's all meet at Joe's house to burn it down—I'll bring the lighter") that feels to me like the sort of thing that would be useful to do something about instead of waiting for the actual crime to be committed. But publicly stating that you s…

A liberal prohibition on violent speech is an aspirational privilege of a people who have solved all their social problems to such a degree that the credible threat of violence is never necessary for justice or progress. Or an aspirational privilege of an aristocracy who have solved all of their material problems at the expense of everybody else, and demand militant proactive protection of their hoard and their perso…

[deleted]

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#125

Post by ripjaygn » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 3:02 AM UTC

avodonosov wrote: post #90

Dibby053 wrote: post #83

Buried under the rest of the article is this, since some people only do headlines I'll copy it here for visibility: >Shanbehzadeh was sentenced to five years for alleged pro-Israel propaganda activity, four years for insulting Islamic sanctities, two years for spreading lies online and an additional year for anti-regime propaganda. >His lawyer, Amir Raisian, told Shargh Network, a reformist newspaper in Iran, that he…

I sometimes asked people on HN, what news sites they consider to be of decent quality. And npr.org was recommended several times. Seeing this cheap manipulative article suggests they were mistaken. PS. Maybe his 12 years sentence is completely unjust, I don't know. But titles like this... How about "A man is sentenced to death after having cofee for breakfast" for an article about Charles Manson? (I suppose he had co…

AP News has been posting fake news about Tesla, it's sad to see.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#126

Post by christiangenco » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 3:13 AM UTC

zephyrthenoble wrote: post #40

christiangenco wrote: post #26

I've been thinking a lot recently about where I would personally draw the line on what sorts of speech should be criminal. If someone publicly called for specific violence (ex: "let's all meet at Joe's house to burn it down—I'll bring the lighter") that feels to me like the sort of thing that would be useful to do something about instead of waiting for the actual crime to be committed. But publicly stating that you s…

Aren't there plenty of examples of the kind of speech you talk about in your second paragraph already on Twitter? There are plenty of hot takes to pick from, with some being censored more or less based on the current owner. I'd also be interested to have some examples of the current set of ideas that you believe we are stuck with. It's an interesting phrase, and it begs to be enumerated.

In my personal experience on X it seems like the platform has become way more tolerant of more types of speech from more diverse perspectives. I feel this change has been an improvement. I’m curious about accounts you’ve noticed get censored more.

What I mean by the current set of ideas we’re stuck with is the total set of every mainstream idea we have about everything. There have been a few recent examples of ideas that used to be considered misinformation worthy of censorship that have since gotten unstuck and are now part of the new accepted set (ex: the idea that COVID might be a lab leak, Hunter Biden’s laptop, Ivermectin). Without free speech that lets extremists explore “unacceptable” fringe ideas our society gets to the actual truth much slower.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#127

Post by christiangenco » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 3:26 AM UTC

colmmacc wrote: post #38

christiangenco wrote: post #26

I've been thinking a lot recently about where I would personally draw the line on what sorts of speech should be criminal. If someone publicly called for specific violence (ex: "let's all meet at Joe's house to burn it down—I'll bring the lighter") that feels to me like the sort of thing that would be useful to do something about instead of waiting for the actual crime to be committed. But publicly stating that you s…

What do you think of a domineering bully who demeans, berates, and manipulates a vulnerable partner? It's not hard to find examples of relationships where over years a person preys on someone else's insecurities and tells them every day that they are worthless, that no-one else will take them, and responds with anger to every minor irritation, often unpredictably. Or they may gaslight them and leave someone with a le…

I think verbal abuse is terrible and should be prevented by the state, just not under the umbrella of limiting free speech.

For me verbal abuse is in the same sort of category as rigging up a bomb to detonate when I've tweeted a keyword. The crime isn't really about the ideas being expressed (which I believe should be protected), the crimes just happen to involve speech.

Where abusive speech gets tricky for me is when people feel that ideas being publicly expressed are harming them (ex: a twitter discussion perpetuating hateful stereotyoes of people like me). In my current position that sort of speech is some of the most important to protect because I don't like it.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#128

Post by riehwvfbk » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 3:34 AM UTC

aguaviva wrote: post #93

riehwvfbk wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Humanitarian" charity is not exactly a fitting description of the organization she donated to (though I agree that the sentence is out of proportion). To flip this around: imagine that someone was going through US customs and border clearance, and it became known that they donated money towards Russian FPV drones that hit Ukraine. Would you support giving this person a jail term or not? Now imagine that this person…

Can you provide us with any indications that the charity in question (Razom) channelled money towards actual military drones for Ukraine? We see they had a project in 2022 that did provide some drones, but this seems to have been in the context of supporting search and rescue operations and the like, not military operations. Razom maintains that it does not provide military supplies of any kind. Let alone "weapons an…

Huh, they significantly sanitized their website following all the media attention. Now it does say it's all about medical supplies. However, one can't sanitize the entire Internet. Here's a page that mentions that Razom funds drones: https://dobro.ua/member/operator/bf-razom-dlia-ukrayiny/

But in any case, my question stands. Let's say a US citizen donated to a fund that supplied drones to Russia. Said drones do not carry a military payload, but can be used for recon and artillery targeting. What would you think about this person?

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#129

Post by avodonosov » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 3:50 AM UTC

avodonosov wrote: post #99

bufferoverflow wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Thanks, I will try it, probably. I asked people primarily not because I want good news sites for myself. For my news reading method polarized, manipulative and biased sources are sometimes more informative. But I am interested to know what people read and who they believe. Although, having a high quality source maybe useful to me. Also interesting to see novel approaches and experiments, like the bias measurement the…

Browsed the ground.news a little. Seems interesting at first sight, thank you for the link.

Strange that they consider bias as a spectrum between Left and Right. Doesn't make much sense to me, especially for the topics interesting me most.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#130

Post by avodonosov » Tue, Sep 03, 2024, 4:41 AM UTC

hippich wrote: post #6

Look up what for people in Belarus are being locked up daily since 2020. Emojis, likes, simply caught with preview of the news cached on their phone... We call border crossing, either on land or thought airport, a "Belarusian roulette", because your never know... And it is not prominent people, just regular folks. And it is not in completely different culture - it is a very close to western traditions country, right…

> Look up what for people in Belarus are being locked up daily .... simply caught with preview of the news cached on their phone

I live in Belarus, haven't heard of anyone locked for news cached on their phone. Could you provide sources of that info? I read all kinds of news, what if I am in danger...