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Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

nytimes.com

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Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#121

Post by malermeister »

_heimdall wrote: post #82
olivierduval wrote: post #55

Sorry I don't get: how is possible to find anybody defending Musk when the Supreme Court of a democracy ruled to exclude X from the country ? Free speech is a good thing AS LONG AS it respect the country laws. In France, the People decided democratically (through their elected representatives) against some kinds of so-called "free speech" (for example: racism apology). That's OUR choice, on OUR territory (like it or…

> Free speech is a good thing AS LONG AS it respect the country laws. In France, the People decided democratically (through their elected representatives) against some kinds of so-called "free speech" (for example: racism apology). That's OUR choice, on OUR territory (like it or not: rule your own country but not mine). Why should X be allowed to refuse to respect the France laws on the french territory (resp. Europe…

That's why the conversation in Europe is usually about Freedom of Expression, not Speech.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#122

Post by _heimdall »

malermeister wrote: post #121
_heimdall wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is a good thing AS LONG AS it respect the country laws. In France, the People decided democratically (through their elected representatives) against some kinds of so-called "free speech" (for example: racism apology). That's OUR choice, on OUR territory (like it or not: rule your own country but not mine). Why should X be allowed to refuse to respect the France laws on the french territory (resp. Europe…

That's why the conversation in Europe is usually about Freedom of Expression , not Speech .

I've never actually understood the difference, curious if you can help fill in a few blanks for me.

How is expression different than speech here? Is a European really free to express themselves when they are limited to expression that the government approves (or hasn't banned)?

It feels like a lazy attempt at rebranding speech so they can claim its free...with government restrictions.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#123

Post by aguaviva »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #114
tmottabr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin america have the world largest Lithium reserves, specially accross Argentina, Bolivia and Chile being the three largest and Brazil being the 7th.. The largest lithium mining company in the region is Sigma Lithium.. Tesla was negotiating to buy the Sigma Lithium but now the Chinese BYD is the favorite.. [0] [1] China companies are currently owning the EV market in Brazil , and many other developing contries, and…

> Musk expect that a right wing government will align with him, and be in favor of blocking China and that would open the door for him to buy the mining companies instead.. Things in Brazil are not simple as that. Bolsonaro, the latest right wing president, did more business with china and russia than expected. He was one of the first chief of state to fly to Moscou when Russia invade Ukraine, to reinsure brazil woul…

Unfortunately Lula isn't quite neutral as he likes to parrot Putin's propaganda narratives, particularly as to the root "cause" of the war:

  But it’s not just Putin who is guilty. The U.S. and the E.U. are also guilty. What was the reason for the Ukraine invasion? NATO? Then the U.S. and Europe should have said: “Ukraine won’t join NATO.” That would have solved the problem.
https://time.com/6173232/lula-da-silva-transcript/

This doesn't make him stooge or ally of course. More likely it's the toxic side effect from decades of ingesting his movement's own kool-aid as far as geopolitics goes ("The enemy of my enemy can't be half bad", that sort of thing).

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#124

Post by malermeister »

Levitz wrote: post #37
pavlov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the past two years of Twitter's evolution have shown, more power to Elon Musk actually leads to more censorship. He's running the social media service like a kingdom where lèse-majesté is the gravest offense, promoting himself and blocking any topics that he doesn't personally like (including the existence of his own daughter who posts on Threads now). Old Twitter had flawed content moderation processes, but at le…

In what way does taking X off Brazil decrease the censorship in Brazil?

It removes the censor that is Musk.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#125

Post by malermeister »

_heimdall wrote: post #122
malermeister wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the conversation in Europe is usually about Freedom of Expression , not Speech .

I've never actually understood the difference, curious if you can help fill in a few blanks for me. How is expression different than speech here? Is a European really free to express themselves when they are limited to expression that the government approves (or hasn't banned)? It feels like a lazy attempt at rebranding speech so they can claim its free...with government restrictions.

You are free to express your opinions ("I don't like immigrants from Africa"), but you are not free to choose any manner of speech, as there's restrictions in certain areas, such as hate speech or inciting violence ("Kill the N-words!")

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#126

Post by greesil »

rowanG077 wrote: post #64
greesil wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we need 10000 communication satellites compared to what a terrestrial network can provide? Cellular networks reutilize spectrum much more efficiently than space based systems. I get that there niche applications like rural broadband and military communications. I have no idea if Kessler syndrome is a real possibility but if it is then it doesn't seem worth it.

Yes we desperately do need it. Sure if you are living in your comfy American city you don't see the need. But most places on earth actually don't have a convenient cell tower or terrestrial network. Starlink is much more efficient to cover those areas then manually building out infrastructure there. It's not even a contest.

Yeah but you don't need 10000 satellites to provide cell coverage when 100 would do. Hybrid ground station networks have been a thing for a long time now... if your goal is to provide mobile networks for the lowest possible cost to the end user. That's not Starlink's goal -- these "uninternetnetted" folks don't have money to pay, they typically don't even have electricity. Rural broadband in developed countries do. Telematics does. So don't give me this bs of efficiency for the whole world.

Edit: to be more explicit about the architecture, you can run 100 satellites with better/ larger / more antennas that'll do the work of 1000. SpaceX has a different model, which is more low quality, disposable satellites because they have an inexpensive launch vehicle. Ultimately their system of 1000 might cost the same or less than the 100 high performance satellites. But I can't figure out why the heck they want 10000 satellites unless they want to just have phones communicate directly to orbit, no starlink base station as middlemen. So now they've clogged up LEO so they can replicate what terrestrial networks provide, AND there's a perfectly viable alternative architecture that didn't require nearly as many satellites. That's my gripe.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#127

Post by dazilcher »

EasyMark wrote: post #84
teekert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's selective wrt which governments he is giving into, he's not blocking anything himself. Would you rather: He obeys all governments? Obeys no governments?

I think the point is that he shouldn’t lie about selective “free speech” in Brazil he seems all for it to the point of getting kicked out of the country. With more friendly regimes he is happy to censor other voices than the official “state”voice. I think people are looking for consistency and honesty rather than the charade his currently projecting.

So he's a hypocrite. Like most people are. Doesn't change the fact that in this case he happens to be fighting a good fight.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#128

Post by davidguetta »

josefritzishere wrote: post #110

Elon is antagonizing an international incident. It's clear that Brazil law prevails in Brazil. He has no foundation here except gross arrogance.

The "law" should not be that much full of secrecy and lack of due process. Its basically a proto-secret service at that point

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#129

Post by davidguetta »

orwin wrote: post #12

This storyline was a rare case of me supporting Elon, but once again, he goes too far, childishly, for his ego. He is just proving a lot of people i don't particularly like right, that billionaires are supranational powers. Which does support a very marxist view on capitalism (and productivism sadly), that it enable money to create power above political power.

Im confused of your point.

Power is power.. of course a bilionaire or even milionaire is gonna be "more powerful" than some nations.. there are some with But at the end of the day its just about internet. X has every right to say fuck off to some countries its not based in, while countries has the "right" if they decide it to censor some parts of the internet.

Thats not really the point in the end. The point is really "is free speech, including hate speech and disinformation should be right or not in your country"

Its a very hard question that im not sure i have the answer. Someones's hate speech is always someone else's "speaking the truth" but ibknow some cases where censoring made sense.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#130

Post by sebazzz »

seydor wrote: post #16
pavlov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the past two years of Twitter's evolution have shown, more power to Elon Musk actually leads to more censorship. He's running the social media service like a kingdom where lèse-majesté is the gravest offense, promoting himself and blocking any topics that he doesn't personally like (including the existence of his own daughter who posts on Threads now). Old Twitter had flawed content moderation processes, but at le…

[flagged]

There is freedom of opinion, not freedom of speech.
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