Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 415 posts

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#121

Post by AdrianB1 »

grecy wrote: post #22

I am very sad to watch this situation. I spent 3 weeks driving my 4x4 through Sudan in early 2019 [1], just a month before they finally got rid of Al-Bashir, and it was incredible. The people of Sudan were some of the kindest and friendliest I have ever encountered on the planet. When I asked for directions to buy bread and it turned out to be complicated, the following morning locals brought a bag of fresh-baked bre…

This ESTA thing is weird. I had to go through Syria many times in transit to Jordan when it was cheaper to drive than to fly, but I never thought this will cause problems in the future. Same for Iran and Iraq, lots of Romanians used to work there in electricity projects. Iran is still a destination for motorcycle rides, I have a friend who was married to an Iranian woman and we had plans to go there with the bikes, he was traveling regularly to visit his wife's family. But I guess these exceptions are rare enough to be ignored.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#122

Post by acdha »

Aeolun wrote: post #101
Dalewyn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you why: My capacity to give damns is finite . If you happen to be some saint who has infinite capacity for empathy, good for you. I think most people share my sentiment, though.

It’s not that I don’t care. It’s just that my ability and will to do anything more than care is lacking. Presumably if I cared enough I’d donate to some charity, but I feel fixing this kind of stuff is why we have governments with humanitarian aid programmes (which I happily pay for through taxes), which should theoretically be a thousand times more effective.

It’s also worth noting that many times we simply cannot do anything about it. Gaza does not have a food shortage because there are huge amounts of aid ready to be distributed, it’s because there’s a hot war and the Israeli government strictly controls access. Someone like Jeff Bezos could give the Red Cross a billion dollars and it wouldn’t matter unless that came with something only governments can arrange like a cease fire or military escort.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#124

Post by mensetmanusman »

throwaway3521 wrote: post #15

At which point we admit that current approaches to helping these countries does nothing and we reach out for other, radical, approaches and ideas?

Ummm, western led economic and technological development efforts have massively lowered poverty rates the last century. See China, India, etc.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#125

Post by Qem »

throwaway3521 wrote: post #46
tetris11 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you suggesting

Bring back colonization for limited amount of time ie 50years. During that time establish government, educational, civil structures and start the economy. Re-educate the society, instill the values of high-trust society. Pull out of the country gradually replacing foreigners with local population. The name 'colonization' might evoke some sentiments, but we can call this some other name.

Because colonists are totally expected to do a good job this time, not just pillaging resources, setting new apartheid systems, generating even greater famines like what UK did in India and doubling down on the lazy job of drawing straight line borders not taking in consideration the human gropings in the land, what generated a lot of the current conflicts, by splitting affine people in different countries and bunching together rival groups under the same borders. As example of colonist promoted famine, if the one currently unfolding in Gaza not enough, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#126

Post by gryzzly »

Qem wrote: post #61
dotancohen wrote: post #23

[flagged]

The famine in Gaza generates a lot of outrage because there was a line of trucks loaded with food rotting outside, as there is an apartheid system in place actively withholding food to generate said famine. We have even instances were soldiers were caught in camera gunning down starving people trying to get food, like the infamous flour massacre: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre

[flagged]

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#127

Post by [deleted] »

apexalpha wrote: post #85
energy123 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I seriously doubt the indirect support for the war in Yemen or in Sudan through proxies even comes close to the direct support for Israel. Also please dont dismiss opposing views as irrelevant copy pastas. Im not blind to your argument either. If you have sources that say the level of support is similar after all ill consider them.

[deleted]

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#128

Post by eej71 »

throwaway3521 wrote: post #15

At which point we admit that current approaches to helping these countries does nothing and we reach out for other, radical, approaches and ideas?

You suggestion below is getting downvoted which isn't that surprising given the general tilt of HN. But I think there is a related question that's a bit better to ask.

What are the social, political, cultural and intellectual preconditions of a free society? What ideals and values does the culture need to hold before you can have a stable government that in a general way - values liberty for its citizens?

While I'd love to see many parts of Africa and the mideast embrace the enlightenment values that have created our modern governments built around such ideals as individual rights, rule of law, checks and balances, multiple political parties, free speech, independent court systems, a secular state, etc. I don't think those cultural values are in place. And yes, you can shake a finger at your choice of western country and point out the many ways they fall short of those ideals and you'd be right, but I think you're missing the forest for a diseased tree.

So what to do? Provide free resources until they figure it out? Not sure that's worked out. Ignore them? Lecture them?

How do you change a culture that in some ways doesn't want to change?

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#129

Post by crop_rotation »

carlob wrote: post #95
throwaway3521 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bring back colonization for limited amount of time ie 50years. During that time establish government, educational, civil structures and start the economy. Re-educate the society, instill the values of high-trust society. Pull out of the country gradually replacing foreigners with local population. The name 'colonization' might evoke some sentiments, but we can call this some other name.

Democracy export? That has worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan...

While I don't agree with the parent comment, 20 years is just nowhere enough for his strategy. Mullah Omar himself was alive for almost half of those. Something like 50 years where the old regime leaders completely vanish can only work. Again I am not saying whether it is practical or whether it is even a good idea at all.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#130

Post by dagaci »

dotancohen wrote: post #23

[flagged]

Yes the situation in Sudan got worse so that it exceeded the situation in Gaza. It has been deteriorating for many months since April 2023.

The collapse of the Sudan is not directly being enflamed directly by any western power compared to the Gaza collapse. So the Sudan conflict is less interesting to us.

The Sudan collapse is being enflamed by regional powers where the UAE is funding the Janjaweed (who are officially declared a g*nocidal outfit) whereas the Sudan government actual is being supported by Iran.

The UAE might be considered a proxy for the US though but this kind of indirection makes the conflict too complicated talk about in the general media i guess.

Post reply on HN