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China's manufacturers are going broke

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121–130 of 229 posts

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#121

China's manufactures finding the winners. This is the system working as intended - create many producers in xyz sector via subsidies, hardcore (involution) competition from 1000s in different provinces innovate manufacturing to bare margins, losers go out of business/ get bought up by better competitors and consolidate like _intended_ outcome of other PRC industrial policy. TLDR Set up competitive environment to forc…

Still doesn't work. 1.) Internal consumer demand for China has collapsed, due to real estate debt overhang, local government debt overhang, increasing job loss, and incoming and increasing college graduates. It's estimated that 80% of this year's current graduates are jobless. 2.) External demand for China has been decreasing, 3.5T total export in 2022, only 3.3T in 2023. probably below 3T this year. Due to geopoliti…

Work what? I think Ctrl+F China + collapse arguments still doesn't work.

1) Consumption is "sluggish", i.e. it's small positive growth instead of large precovid positive growth. It's not negative decline let alone collapse. Get off the FLG. Employment rate steady, including new grads at 20% accounting for those in school and not looking for work (i.e. the Chinese tertiary way), 40%-50% for graduate cohorts who takes time job hunting / not ready to settle. Which they will, given broad unemployments is steady, i.e. new grads get job after 1+ year and roll into genpop employment stats. There's 1% drop in new salaries in some industries, people are staying in jobs longer. "New productive" industry jobs, i.e. the high value ones set to drive PRC economy including energy, semi etc experience continuous growth. In aggregate positive, not fantastic, but also opposite of collapse.

2) Exports stabilizing after record covid highs, still only ~20% of gdp, i.e. PRC hasn't been (barely) export dependant for 10+ years at high of ~35%. If you follow brad setser, he'll note PRC exports probably being massively/deliberately hidden/under reported because two way data suggest much higher. BTW export dependant countries regularly over 50-100% export to gdp. Entire overproduction/overexport narrative is retarded considering how little PRC exports as share of GDP.

3) Who said EV was suppose to rescue PRC economy? PRC too big for 1 sector/industry to make difference. Collection of New productive industry jobs doing their part, sure. But generally when you remove RE drama, which they deliberately crippled, you get current modest 5% growth instead of previous 7-8%. Settling to modest growth is expected sooner or later. Modest growth (~5%) is enough to increase GDP PPP gap vs US. Most of projections on PRC passing US GDP assumes eventual modest growth + FX movements i.e strength RMB. Which they strategically don't want to because right now it's all about pricing out incumbant competitors in new export categories. Like CCP can get easy propaganda win by moving RMB band 5-10% to entier per capita $14000 USD high income range, but they don't because modest growth works fine.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#122

Well, if they want to learn from the US, they should ship their manufacturing capacity and intellectual property off to their geopolitical rival for short-term monetary gain.

It wasn't just US. The hidden politburo of capitalists decided and the nations followed orders.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#123
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looks like militarism and imperialism are not compatible at that crazy new 21th century world Your faux confusion isn't really impressing anyone. Is the US, the most militarist and imperialist nation in the world by far at the moment, "compatible" with the "crazy new 21st century world"? I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. I keep hearing that it's going to start happeni…

You've pointed out what the US is doing. That's good, but you're clearly biased, so let me tell you two things that China is doing that is contributing for that instability you've mentioned: claims in the south china sea that no country would accept if it was done to them and a major naval build up. You need two to tango and both the US and China are dancing right now. Anyone only blaming one side need to stop for a…

> You need two to tango [...]

> Anyone only blaming one side need to stop for a second [...]

When it comes to military coercion (wars, threats), and imperialism, it only takes one bad actor to cause problems.

When there are two sides, or three, it just means more actors willing to push around everyone else.

Albeit, they amplify each other. Their respective needs to dominate encourage each others' aggressive tendencies. And it is much easier to justify/ignore/repeat misbehaviors when there are other aggressors to point at.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#124
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a good example because Boeing didn’t outsource. No, that's precisely my point actually. Boeing is one of the very few companies that maintained its local manufacturing capacity. (to say that they "didn't outsource" is not remotely accurate) Despite everything that was pointing in Boeing's favor -- culture, financials, market, reputation; it was taken over by the MBAs that put McDonnell-Douglas into a nosedive a…

Aah the McDonald excuse again. The favorite pivot of every boing apologist and conspiracy theorist. If only Mac, a completely successful defense contractor, hadn't somehow engineered a completely galaxy brained backdoor purchase of their largest competitor Boeing like a tapewirm because they needed cash after the f112 cancellation they never would have lost that engineering led spirit. Get over it. Boeing wasn't doin…

Cold air holds less water than dry, AC is great for drying, also saunas are super dry. Heating up ACed air would be ultra dry.

You mean that the wet rainy Seattle weather combined with jungle like south east make a bad moisture combo, right?

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#125
post #99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused about what point you're attempting to make here? Political conflict with a trade partner obviously leads to reduced trade, no matter the parties involved. What part of that statement are you taking issue with?

> Looks like militarism and imperialism are not compatible at that crazy new 21th century world Your faux confusion isn't really impressing anyone. Is the US, the most militarist and imperialist nation in the world by far at the moment, "compatible" with the "crazy new 21st century world"? I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. I keep hearing that it's going to start happeni…

Its not faux. I'm genuinely asking what about the original comment you disagreed with. It didn't really have anything to do with what you're talking about, so, Im wondering what connection you're trying to make.

Do you think political conflict makes trade better, and are using the US as an example? It doesn't seem like you're disagreeing with the original premise, but rather just aggressively responding with a tangent.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear a lot of wars get started by guys like Xi who after seizing power internally try to seize power externally and it often ends really really badly for the host country. Seriously, the leader of Germany in the 1930's, Stalin, Putin, Saddam Hussein, now Xi. All seized power domestically and then couldn't help themselves when it came to neighboring countries.

Obviously this is heated topic, but did it ends really bad for USSR under Stalin rule (until his death)? I mean it was bad for many citizens but other areas were actually ok-ish considering war destructions. I’m not trying to make point about Stalin. Just trying to find if this is really a rule, but my historical knowledge is pretty limited. Intuitively I feel any overpowered political entity end up like shit. But in…

If you ask the Russians the Brezhnyev rule was the best (stability, stagnation), with Stalin trailing him (won WW2, rapid industrialization). If you ask westeners, Khrushchev (space race, reforms) and Gorbachev (glasnost).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Leonid_Brezhnev

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn't work. 1.) Internal consumer demand for China has collapsed, due to real estate debt overhang, local government debt overhang, increasing job loss, and incoming and increasing college graduates. It's estimated that 80% of this year's current graduates are jobless. 2.) External demand for China has been decreasing, 3.5T total export in 2022, only 3.3T in 2023. probably below 3T this year. Due to geopoliti…

Work what? I think Ctrl+F China + collapse arguments still doesn't work. 1) Consumption is "sluggish", i.e. it's small positive growth instead of large precovid positive growth. It's not negative decline let alone collapse. Get off the FLG. Employment rate steady, including new grads at 20% accounting for those in school and not looking for work (i.e. the Chinese tertiary way), 40%-50% for graduate cohorts who takes…

[flagged]

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#128
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looks like militarism and imperialism are not compatible at that crazy new 21th century world Your faux confusion isn't really impressing anyone. Is the US, the most militarist and imperialist nation in the world by far at the moment, "compatible" with the "crazy new 21st century world"? I've also yet to see any practical examples of Chinese militarism or imperialism. I keep hearing that it's going to start happeni…

You've pointed out what the US is doing. That's good, but you're clearly biased, so let me tell you two things that China is doing that is contributing for that instability you've mentioned: claims in the south china sea that no country would accept if it was done to them and a major naval build up. You need two to tango and both the US and China are dancing right now. Anyone only blaming one side need to stop for a…

Take a look at a map of US bases around China and then try to find any Chinese bases near the US, and you’ll understand who’s “militarist” and who isn’t.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#129
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously this is heated topic, but did it ends really bad for USSR under Stalin rule (until his death)? I mean it was bad for many citizens but other areas were actually ok-ish considering war destructions. I’m not trying to make point about Stalin. Just trying to find if this is really a rule, but my historical knowledge is pretty limited. Intuitively I feel any overpowered political entity end up like shit. But in…

Of course it was bad. But the point was about starting wars. Stalin did start many wars, disastrous invasion of Finland, invasion of Poland, Molotov-Ribentrop pact with Germany and so on.

You could imagine an alternate universe where Stalin gets dysentery and dies. The USSR tells Ribentrop to f'off. And then joins the allies declaring war on Germany when Hitler invades Poland.

Also I forgot to add Mussolini and his designs on Greece, Balkans, North and the Horn of Africa.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lots of other scandals, not just food 1.) recent 2024 huge scandal regarding oil container trucks swapping out cooking oil with cancerous industry oil without cleaning the tank. the trucks ended up covering up their tank with tarp so people can't see what kind of oil these trucks are carrying. 2.) videos of Chinese EVs just simultaneously combusting in the streets while driven or parked 3.) toxic chemicals found on T…

Great, now do scandals in the US. The Chinese internet was very interested in the Ohio train derailment, for example.

Links! Sounds interesting
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