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The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

chuck.is

121–130 of 205 posts

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#121
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever does the scoring will do so based on whether they agree with the sites bias or not instead of any of those criteria. So you're back to square one but now with a false sense of legitimacy

There is a strong chance that bias will affect rankings, to some degree, but: 1. Bias is not all or nothing. 2. There is a large degree of commonality about baseline ethics and quality of life. Polarization accentuates wedge issues disproportionately. 3. There are classes of statements which can be factually assessed. 4. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. A step in the right direction combined with other…

My objection isn't that its good but not perfect, I don't think itd be good at all. So far everyone who's tried to be a neutral arbiter of truth has been a political hack, like politifact and groups like that. Training the public to trust things just because they got a good score from some agency is not going to improve their ability to think critically and be informed, the false sense of legitimacy (and the ability to apply the rules unevenly to make your enemies look illegitimate) would make the problem even more odious

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#122

The blending of comedy/entertainment with news, going back to the GWB era with the Daily Show is a good example of this problem. People consuming junk food thinking they are getting their vegetables. Better to simply turn off your brain and honestly watch real junk without the false sophistication.

Frankly the Daily Show/Last Week Tonight are the best news, because the news isn't vegetables to begin with, it's alluring toxic slop that makes us feel like shit when we consume it. At least TDS/LWT make us feel good while getting mildly (and mostly unnecessarily) informed.

One problem with mixing comedy with serious news is we undermine the gravity or seriousness with which we should respond. Hardtalk on BBC should be common format so that people go into the show with belief that these are not laughing matter

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#123
Journalism has always been a rather shady business. "Remember the Maine."

Also, most of what you hear or read is just a reflection of who is spending money to get press. For example, Taylor Swift, AI companies and the Olympics all have a formula to turn press coverage into cash, so it should be no surprise that they are constantly in the news.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#124
post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

> the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. How much do you personally spend subscribing to independent journalism? There are great outlets and journalists closing down and moving on every day, because when push comes to shove, people don't want to pay a dollar to read important news that they care about, even in their own communities.

The hope is these ratings could more systematically help support good journalists, since news orgs will keep those journalists employed in order to keep their ranking up.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#125
"News" is such a huge category though. I just try to be more selective to subjects which may have some effect on me. Bookmark some articles as potential trends. Bookmark some as potentially important reading. Put a budget on it.

One interesting idea I have been toying with is to use prediction markets as a filter. Like, ask myself if I can make a prediction based on this. Then go to a prediction market and actually put a bet on a prediction. Either find one which already exists, or make one. What I have found interesting is how the situation develops into me being wrong. And how hard it is to get above zero. If I can't gain by making predictions on a situation I'm somewhat interested in, then how might being in the red on less informed topics be messing with my thinking?

Probably not realistic, but I have been thinking about how I could make it work.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working in a PR-type space recently. That narrative is the subject of war between so many different actors. The worst thing is watching everyone around me, even very intelligent people, get so angry over a space that is so heavily fabricated, optimised even for that very same outrage.

I think the idea that news does things for ratings and therefore money is not really true. Control of the narrative is vastly more lucrative for other stakeholders in these organizations. Some of these news organizations like the Washington Post for example lost $77 million last year. Fox news fired Tucker Carlson, the most popular news anchor in the channel's history. This is not an economically driven business, at…

> Fox news fired Tucker Carlson, the most popular news anchor in the channel's history. This is not an economically driven business

Nonsense example. Carlson was the figurehead for a narrative that cost Murdoch $800 million in defamation.

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/26/tucker-carlson...

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#127
post #118
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it can work, but will require a very well designed set of rules. For example, with fact checking, some fact checking is easy. Eg if an article says "the unemployment rate last year was X%". You have to do some research to determine what measure of unemployment they're using, but boom, you can say it is factually incorrect if no measure lists that number. This process is even easier if it's linked to the data…

But why would you bother with this? If you want to know last year's unemployment rate objectively speaking, then you just head to wherever the statistics are published by your government and see it yourself. Well, if you can trust your government's statistics that is (and this is an extremely important "if"). So I doubt people are coming to a news site to read a one-liner with some statistic, they want more developme…

This is just the bare minimum standards level that a news organisation should meet. And this isn't based on a hypothetical; here's an article from the CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-records-its-...

The graph is entirely incorrect and contradicts the numbers in the paragraph just before it. And good luck finding the source for that statistic I spent half an hour trying to! And all the discussion about this article online was incredibly confused since people were drawing the wrong conclusions from the graph.

I think this journalist and this newspaper should be dinged when errors like this are made. (And also dinged since it hasn't been corrected months after the article was published).

This is just one of many checks that help differentiate lower quality news from higher quality news.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#128
Okay, this is interesting as I am myself now on day five of an intentional news fasting and it is amazing. So, I'm going to take some effort here; mainly for the purpose of active reflection.

===

> Reducing my intake of what is essentially junk information has significantly reduced anxiety and worry in my day to day life, and has freed up more of my time to pursue other interests and deeper reading.

Confirmed.

> My view is that "the news" primarily exists to keep consumers entertained rather than keeping citizens informed, ...

No, it exists primarily for two reasons:

1) Making a financial profit.

2) Political control over citizens.

The entertainment and dopaminergic aspects of it are simply means to those ends.

> most commonly in the form of advertisements, but also in the form of news that's constantly competing for our attention

Advertisement and news are often indistinguishable.

> I think any news junkie reading this will immediately go on the defensive.

I'm a news junkie in recovery.

> In ancient times having power meant having access to data. Today having power means knowing what to ignore. The 24 hour news cycle is something to be ignored.

Harari is a very uninteresting journalist writing shallow and irrelevant books. And those borderline pun based sound bites are indicative of it. There is no meaningful "power" in knowing what to ignore.

> resulting in "alternate" sources of information being either absurd conspiracy theories or "takes" of mainstream news on social media.

I do not agree. "Alternate" sources are the only sources of some of the news I care about. Some are maybe overly conspiracy theoretical but our governments and industries are conspirative. Regular news sources are almost worthless beyond providing a very high-level idea about what happened.

> Stories themselves are often slanted to please advertisers and company shareholders.

Or governments. And that is in and of itself highly conspirative.

> a small number of companies control 90% of the media - not just "the news". That's 90% of what we read, watch, and listen to.

And that's why people flock to "alternative" media ...

> A common argument against cutting out the news is that "ignorance is bliss", suggesting that those who do not consume the news are ignorant.

Isn't that more an argument for ignorance with regard to news?

> Let that sink in.

And that's why even X is relevant here. Cause where else will I be informed about who was stabbed again by a refugee somewhere in Germany if not there - and this is something I _DO_ care about. But also one major reason why I refuse to further bother with it as I lack the power to change anything about it.

> Rather it makes one less informed of the world and distracts you from what's going on in your own physical life and your own neighborhood, while instilling a very negative view of the world that's divorced from reality.

Yes. There is only so much attention you can give and if you waste it on what happens in Israel, Westjordanland, Ukraine or Venezuela then you have no attention left to what happens with yourself, your family, your neighborhood, your town. But those are usually not as exciting.

> Information junkies often have the most extreme views (on both sides of the US political spectrum) with a strong "us vs them" mindset where "them"

That matches my personal experience. Reading about all the terrible things happening all day long will put you into a constant mode of alarm and panic for which you have to find a release.

> That said, what difference does it make if I hear about the story hours after it happens?

Several times I've been lusting for live news on some exciting event on Twitter - hitting the F5 like in a fever. Last example probably was the assassination attempt on Trump. This always wrecks my entire day. My attention is glued to this object of excitement and my dopamine is going through the roof numbing my motivation management for anything else.

> we are today and governments and corporations are still getting away with murder and exploitation.

Yes, because they'll just produce news which is going to divert the attention somewhere else if it gets too hot. And the usual news agencies (all of them) are catering to their advertisers and certain political parties.

> Who is more ignorant of the world ... ?

I don't care about whether someone maybe considers me ignorant. The author shouldn't worry about that either. I care about my time and especially my mental health.

> Sharing your outrage of said article on social media makes it feel like you're doing something; that you're taking action, that you're doing gods work by spreading the word and keeping others informed of what's really going on.

Noticed this as well. But then again many of such people also search for ways to do something practical like going on demonstrations.

> ... but it leads us to make probabilistic errors with actual risks we face in real life.

Yes, but for many people school-shootings are not just exciting out of personal fear but also due to human compassion and empathy. For example my risk of getting stabbed by some crazy guy is negligible but I'm sick of reading about it, knowing somebody lost their life because we failed to deport someone who was a criminal long before.

> The truth is that we're far more likely to die in an auto accident or heart disease than we are from being shot or dying in a plane crash ...

Yes, but it's not like the former two examples aren't also used to feed people news. The entire Corona panic was based on a minimally raised risk of dying from it. And in some countries reporting on car crashes and other fatalities by displaying all the gory details is a relevant news segment.

> I'm not advocating a nihilistic worldview and if you think I'm being too cynical, I actually believe I'm being optimistic.

I'd advocate realism and fatalism. Nihilism is nonsense as life is valuable and all nihilists share this perspective while hiding it behind a mask of indifference. And cynicism is often simply a symptom of chronic depression - which isn't desirable either.

> Do you want news reporters setting the public agenda for what's important?

Well, they don't ... politicians and billionaires set the agenda.

===

I'm powerless with regard to each and everything that makes the news. So, why bother if all it does is consume time and make me miserable. That's my perspective.

Having said that ... I would prefer to have one reliable news source which I can consume for one hour once a week. That would be fantastic. But I just don't trust any newspaper anymore.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#129
post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

I think you're going about this in a way that won't make sense to anyone but individuals like yourself. People watching Fox News all day can't possibly think that it's a picture of reality, unless they use their intuition and rational systems in exactly the opposite sense that you are doing here (and this system of ratings would serve). People are not interested in more information, they are interested in the right i…

Yeah, and lots of people eat junk food despite the nutritional labels. But no one in their right mind would suggest scrapping the those labels. We should always push for more information for consumers.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#130
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're going about this in a way that won't make sense to anyone but individuals like yourself. People watching Fox News all day can't possibly think that it's a picture of reality, unless they use their intuition and rational systems in exactly the opposite sense that you are doing here (and this system of ratings would serve). People are not interested in more information, they are interested in the right i…

I can't say for certain but I'm not so sure the people you're describing are a sizeable majority. I think most people are just watching news and doing their best. If a news site has a "C" rating on it -- which would require some sort of government regulation to enforce which would be a whole other thing -- which is then clickable and let's you see "exactly" what it has that rating ( eg "17 inaccuracies in last month…

If they weren’t a sizeable majority, I don’t think we’d be having the same kind of leaders we’re getting in the west tbh.
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