Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

ifixit.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 353 posts

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#121

Post by roc »

padobson wrote: post #59
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the Air line for light weight laptops for normal people. I would think that the word Pro signals that this computer is for people who want to do stuff with it beyond what is provided up front.

This is the crux of the entire issue, crystalized perfectly. If you are going to carry multiple product lines, then why would their features converge? I see no reason to get into the closed vs open debate - this is Apple we're talking about. But why would they turn the Mac Book pro into a MacBook Air with higher specs? Why not get rid of all the branding distinctions and let the consumer spec out the machine, with a…

> "But why would they turn the Mac Book pro into a MacBook Air with higher specs?"

They didn't. You can still get an old-style macbook pro with updated internals. They're offering a new option that looks a lot like a MBP-Air. Doing essentially what you seem to suggest: giving people a choice of a new thing and not taking any old things away.

And if/when most pros demonstrate that they don't care about the modicum of hardware-accessibility in the old-style pro design, Apple will simply be dropping the product that its customers do not prefer. As it always does. As it did with the 17" MBP. A beast that increasingly few Apple customers had any interest in.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#122

Post by swah »

rayiner wrote: post #110
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but really, the thing is, the growth curve is bending down Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Even a 5 year computer (with some upgrades) is good for doing what 99% of the people do today (internet) So chances are upgrades today are moot. Unless you're hitting the limits constantly like video editing, compiling software, etc

I've got a '10 MacBook Pro, but it's got an ancient '08 Core 2 Duo. I can't imagine needing a faster machine, and I even do moderately CPU intensive stuff (compiling, etc).

I feel like compiling isn't a big problem, because you can always wait a little longer...

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#123

Post by reneherse »

There is one thing that to me indicates Apple has really thought through the consequences of this new design: The fact that the SSD is socketed and thus user removable. The machine retains that most critical aspect of home or in-store servicability.

Why this is important: the specific failure case where you have a faulty logic board, or any other failure that requires a full machine replacement. You still have the ability to pull out your drive and replace or wipe it before sending the machine back to Apple for either a complete replacement or "depot" repair. (No doubt there will be SSDs available with the new connector soon.)

So sure, we've lost the ability for the most common, fun, and economical upgrades, and that's a let down for those of us who like to tinker. But the construction of the machine still allows you to protect your personal data before sending your machine off to be repaired, and I have to believe that is the most critical issue for power users.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#124

Post by [deleted] »

wavephorm wrote: post #94
pasbesoin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

So $424 extra for the bigger drive, and $176 for the extra ram... that sounds almost reasonable.

[deleted]

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#125

Post by martingordon »

Evbn wrote: post #77
martingordon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Funny you should mention that. I will be picking up one of the new MacBook Airs and when mulling over the 1.8 vs 2.0 GHz processors, I realized that my last three notebooks (including the new Air) have each had successively lower clock speeds while posting faster Geekbench scores. 2008 - Aluminum MacBook 2.4 GHz - 3374 2010 - MacBook Air 2.13 GHz - 3…

That's because the boards are getting more cycles in GPU and cache and things, which are more important than straightahead serial speed.

Yes, I'm well aware of the reasons why my computers get faster even at lower clock speeds. I think of the megahertz myth, I picture clock speeds staying the same and getting more done at those clock speeds (e.g., all my computers would forever be pegged at 2 GHz but would continue to get faster). It was only today that I realized that clock speeds (at least in my case) are going down (rather than staying constant) while computation ability and battery life continue to increase.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#126

Post by akgerber »

jbellis wrote: post #89

I don't buy that thin-and-light requires glued batteries, soldered ram, and proprietary hdd connectors. As exhibits A, B and C I cite my Thinkpad 420s and the machines I almost got instead, the Samsung series 9 and Sony Vaio Z.

That machine is 2 pounds heavier, half again as thick, and has a shorter battery life; in other words, it's more like the cheaper model 15" Pro, which is also easily upgradeable, and also an inch thick and lighter at 5.5 lb.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#127

Post by 51Cards »

The upgrade-ability aspect is not what gets me, it's the service-ability. Screens crack, Ram chips and SSDs fail. Under warranty, fine... but a LOT of these machines are going to see use well beyond warranty as Macs hold a resale value.

I would really think twice about buying a non-warrantied notebook (or new if I planned to keep it for years) where a back-light fail or crack means a whole new lid, and a bad RAM chip means a whole new logic board (and I'm sure not for the cost of the bad RAM chip). Do I want to potentially be without my notebook for days because its battery reached its known cycle limit?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#128

Post by WiseWeasel »

pasbesoin wrote: post #84
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

The upgraded configuration has a faster core i7 processor and 512GB SSD, but still 8GB RAM. Bumping RAM to 16GB is another $200.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#129

Post by swah »

georgespencer wrote: post #28
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back…

> The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense

How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#130

Post by kenrikm »

Scramblejams wrote: post #116
kenrikm wrote: post #90

Purchase New Apple Laptop -> Sell on Ebay after 12months having only lost $200(average) in depreciation -> Purchase New model. I have followed this cycle since 2004, It's kind of like leasing but on my own terms. I personally feel that $200/year is a very small price to pay for a machine that brings in the bacon. I spend a LOT MORE to keep my Adobe CS Master up to date.

I want to see your ads. I've never been able to sell a laptop (Apple or otherwise) of recent vintage and take so small a hit.

Oh, forgot to add purchased with a student discount. So when you're saving $200 and you take a $200 hit it's really $400 less then retail.
Post reply on HN