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Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

science.org

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Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#121

"they pulled some unorthodox moves to finally break Ingham’s bound" Why is taking methods from other fields an unorthodox move? I come from an engineering background an there it is the common case. The usage of harmonic analysis is a staple in many fields (audio, waves, electrical analysis, statistics) and of course the algorithms are pure math under the hood. If I want to find a reaccuring structure in an underlying…

"Save for Maynard, a 37-year-old virtuoso who specializes in analytic number theory, for which he won the 2022 Fields Medal—math’s most prestigious award. In dedicated Friday afternoon thinking sessions, he returned to the problem again and again over the past decade, to no avail. At an American Mathematical Society meeting in 2020, he enlisted the help of Guth, who specializes in a technique known as harmonic analysis, which draws from ideas in physics for separating sounds into their constituent notes. Guth also sat with the problem for a few years. Just before giving up, he and Maynard hit a break. Borrowing tactics from their respective mathematical dialects and exchanging ideas late into the night over an email chain, they pulled some unorthodox moves to finally break Ingham’s bound."

This quote doesn't suggest that the only thing unorthodox about their approach was using some ideas from harmonic analysis. There's nothing remotely new about using harmonic analysis in number theory.

1. I would say the key idea in a first course in analytic number theory (and the key idea in Riemann's famous 1859 paper) is "harmonic analysis" (and this is no coincidence because Riemann was a pioneer in this area). See: https://old.reddit.com/r/math/comments/16bh3mi/what_is_the_b....

2. The hottest "big thing" in number theory right now is essentially "high dimensional" harmonic analysis on number fields https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automorphic_form, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlands_program. The 1-D case that the Langlands program is trying to generalize is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate%27s_thesis, also called "Fourier analysis on number fields," one of the most important ideas in number theory in the 20th century.

3. One of the citations in the Guth Maynard paper is the following 1994 book: H. Montgomery, Ten Lectures On The Interface Between Analytic Number Theory And Harmonic Analysis, No. 84. American Mathematical Soc., 1994. There was already enough interface in 1994 for ten lectures, and judging by the number of citations of that book (I've cited it myself in over half of my papers), much more interface than just that!

What's surprising isn't that they used harmonic analysis at all, but where in particular they applied harmonic analysis and how (which are genuinely impossible to communicate to a popular audience, so I don't fault the author at all).

To me your comment sounds a bit like saying "why is it surprising to make a connection." Well, breakthroughs are often the result of novel connections, and breakthroughs do happen every now and then, but that doesn't make the novel connections not surprising!

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a lot worse than that. Crowdstrike was bad because everyone lets relatively untested code straight into the Windows kernel - i.e. known incompetence of approach. This would be bad despite massive care taken to have the right approach.

Yes, except there is no “massive care”. If people are OK to install other companies’ rootkits to their critical infrastructure, they will not care about anything else, too.

"Some people did X" !== "All people do X"

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#123
post #50

This is from May and there was a better article in Quanta already discussed here. https://www.quantamagazine.org/sensational-proof-delivers-ne...

I am a bit disappointed that the article doesn't explain what the introductory illustration about Sack's spiral has to do with any of this.

The somewhat cynical but honest answer is that all articles need some kind of pretty image at the top because when you share a link on any social media platform, the platform looks for an image to use as a thumbnail. If it doesn't find one, it gets posted as just a plain link and almost no one clicks it.

This is why Medium requires an image on every post, why every programming blog out there puts random pictures of laptops and coffee cups at the top of their articles, why Unsplash is so popular, and now why AI-generated images at the top of posts are so common.

It's dumb.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people in the industry does not think that RSA is crackable due to the assumptions that the Riemann Hypothesis and also the distribution of prime numbers is such a hard problem with a long time of being unsolvable. A possible mitigation for things like websites would be either ECC or even using the quantum resistant encryption systems (the industry would more likely avoid this due to the systems being very proto…

I don't see how proving the Riemann Hypothesis would help cracking RSA? If it helps, couldn't you just assume it is true and start cracking RSA today? If you ever hit a point where it doesn't work then BOOOM: Riemann Hypothesis disproven!

I think it is the other way around--disproving the RH might break some things.

Most mathematicians believe RH is true, and generally when doing industrial number theory people operate under the assumption that RH is indeed true and so if they need to use X to justify something and there is a theorem of the form "if RH is true then X" they use X.

Thus a proof of RH is not a problem. It just confirms that what people applying number theory already assumed was correct.

A disproof means that those X's might not be true and their use would need to be reassessed.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#125
Reminds me of a story where some egghead friend of mine had a friend that was a researcher at a state school in California.

In his research, he found something like getting unenriched uranium to react (please excuse my complete lack of familiarity with the subject).

Apparently some government agency stepped in, classified his research and asked him to start.

Makes me where else this might have happened - there must be some interesting stuff out there.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#126
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to know where things are today, but historically, public academia has often been behind the true cutting edge of cryptanalysis. For example, take a look at the history of Differential Cryptanalysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_cryptanalysis > The discovery of differential cryptanalysis is generally attributed to Eli Biham and Adi Shamir in the late 1980s, who published a number of attacks agai…

That is both impressive and disappointing. I'm so used to seeing large corporations publishing AI models and other techniques (like Ghidra) that I assumed a finding like that would be disseminated to the public. But you're right, something that could be used to decrypt modern ciphers could very well be kept secret for as long as possible.

Ghidra was private for many years before it was public (I don't know precisely how many, I suppose that information is also private heh)

Edit: Wikipedia mentions 1999, with v1.0 existing in 2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghidra#History

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#127
> “At first sight, they look pretty random,” says James Maynard, a mathematician at the University of Oxford. “But actually, there’s believed to be this hidden structure within the prime numbers.”

What would the pattern of primes hypothetically look like? Is there expected to be some kind of closed form formula? If the Riemann hypothesis were proven, what would be the next step to understanding the distribution? Or is the proof itself expected to hold this answer?

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#129
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That NPI wiki link says integer factorization may be in NP-intermediate iff NPI isn't an empty set, which is unknown at the current time. My understanding is the complexity of factorization is also currently an unsolved problem although no polynomial time algorithm is currently known. Eg https://www.connellybarnes.com/documents/factoring.pdf "Finally, in computational complexity theory, it is unknown whether factorin…

You are conflating. Integer factorization is unsolved and it’s decision problem is in NP. IF’s decision problem’s complexity “may be in NP” because the question of whether P equalling NP is unknown. Meaning IF is NP, but may well be P if P=NP. If P!=NP then IF is NP.

No, IF is unquestionably in NP. The definition of NP is that a purported solution can be checked in polynomial time. That's it. Factorization can be verified by multiplication, in polynomial time, therefore the problem is in NP. Perhaps you're confounding NP with NPC? Recall that P is a subset of NP.

Not sure what you mean by "IF's decision problem" though. Primality is in P.

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