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Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

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Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#121

Post by Timon3 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #81
mpalmer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything will be lost eventually, and efforts should be withheld for the worthwhile If art was preserved solely on the basis of whether its contemporaries thought it was worthwhile, we'd be in real trouble.

If all art, everywhere was kept forever, we're be in real trouble

Why, what trouble would we be in?

And since we're apparently only dealing in absolutes - would we be in bigger trouble than we'd be in if no art, nowhere was kept for any amount of time?

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#122

Post by t0bia_s »

account42 wrote: post #108
t0bia_s wrote: post #103

Another (beside DRM policy) reason, to buy games exclusively on GoG. I would never pay for game that need third party launcher for running it and keep updated. For same reason I'm unable to play (and pay for) online games because I don't have control over saved progression and future development of the game.

You probably already know this but GOG does sell games with online components, including ones tied to a license key (=DRM). So simply only buying from GOG is not enough to escape this madness.

Which are not necessary to use for running single player game. I firewall all games and they run just fine, even for LAN coop.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#124

Post by maccard »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #77
maccard wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the desired outcome of the cheater in a multiplayer game is to ruin the experience for others. It's a game of cat and mouse, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean that because it's technically impossible to stop all cheating that no efforts should be made. Distilling everything down to "open good closed bad" doesn't help anything, as the reality is it's far more nuanced than that.

Lately successful anti cheating programs have separate matchmaking for cheaters instead of using technical measures to try to stop cheating which will always be bypassed.

By your own measure that's a technical measure that can be bypassed. It also doesn't work, to the best of my knowledge. Here's [0] a thread from a game that tried this, and ultimately went back to using anticheat.

> instead of using technical measures to try to stop cheating which will always be bypassed.

The word "stop" implies that it can be completely eliminated - it can't. But the impact of the cheaters on the rest of the game can be reduced. If you have client side hit detection and no server validation, your game will be unplayable pretty much immediately. If you only offer your game over streaming services, people will use external input devices to give them an advantage. But, the number of people who are willing to buy a Cronus Zen is significantly smaller than the number of people who are willing to download a dll and put it in the folder next to their game.

[0] https://x.com/FallGuysGame/status/1305486783858302976

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#125

Post by theaussiestew »

lynx23 wrote: post #116
petterroea wrote: post #11

This is a great excuse to also ensure the legality of third party reverse-engineering as a legitimate and reasonable reaction to the unavailability of official support. I believe EU law already to a certain degree supports this. Just look at the situation Fisker Ocean Car owners are in at the moment - the company has gone bankrupt, and their fate is in the hands of whoever buys the assets. eSIMs may not be paid for,…

Ha, be glad its just a car. I know a true story about the first woman in my country to go through the process of getting a bionic eye. Long story short, she got it. Forward a few years, and the company that built it goes bust, leaving her without support for a technical implant that was experimental at best, meaning, had a lot of issues. Yes, a articular Lem short story comes to mind, although just tangentially relat…

Sounds like the plot of Deus Ex Human Revolution. I hope we don't go into that future.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#126

Post by dguest »

I think people might miss how rules like this can be nice if you are a game developer.

As someone who writes software, I'm honestly happy when someone is requiring that the source be open, that my results be reproducible, that my changes are reviewed, etc. Without that my boss is just asking why I waste my time on things with no profit margin but which are quite satisfying if you take any pride in your work.

In a lot of cases, just requiring that something work without phoning home will cost developers almost nothing and insulate them from silly cost shaving from the higher ups.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#127

Post by thesnide »

t0bia_s wrote: post #122
account42 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably already know this but GOG does sell games with online components, including ones tied to a license key (=DRM). So simply only buying from GOG is not enough to escape this madness.

Which are not necessary to use for running single player game. I firewall all games and they run just fine, even for LAN coop.

So do I.

I simply boycott those that need an online server for multiplayer, unless an opensource version exists. LAN or nobuy.

Sadely, it seems that simple LAN multiplayer is not fashionable anymore...

Yet, I recently restarted some LAN parties and was amazing, even for youngs, when they experience the screams of other players...

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#129

Post by t0bia_s »

thesnide wrote: post #127
t0bia_s wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which are not necessary to use for running single player game. I firewall all games and they run just fine, even for LAN coop.

So do I. I simply boycott those that need an online server for multiplayer, unless an opensource version exists. LAN or nobuy. Sadely, it seems that simple LAN multiplayer is not fashionable anymore... Yet, I recently restarted some LAN parties and was amazing, even for youngs, when they experience the screams of other players...

Yes, occasionally we do LAN parties as well. We try to beat a Titan Quest, because they add new datadiscs here and there so we did not finish it yet.

Whats your choice for LAN games?

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#130

Post by thesnide »

t0bia_s wrote: post #129
thesnide wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do I. I simply boycott those that need an online server for multiplayer, unless an opensource version exists. LAN or nobuy. Sadely, it seems that simple LAN multiplayer is not fashionable anymore... Yet, I recently restarted some LAN parties and was amazing, even for youngs, when they experience the screams of other players...

Yes, occasionally we do LAN parties as well. We try to beat a Titan Quest, because they add new datadiscs here and there so we did not finish it yet. Whats your choice for LAN games?

Mostly RTS oldies that I try to show the youngs.

New ones aren't very LAN friendly.

Some couch multiplayer also. But console based...

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