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Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

shwin.co

121–130 of 372 posts

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#121
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for reading and the response! One of the points I'm trying to make is that taste and elegance fundamentally stem from an internalized heuristic -- which at it's core is memorization. I understand the connotation of "memorization" evokes an image of blindly memorizing without connecting, but isn't the tastefully developed expertise just memorization of a better heuristic?

I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…

Anything you “know” is because you have memorized it. It has nothing to do with either effort, or consciousness.

Memory is the basis of knowledge.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#122
post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

The book Make it Stick taught me that this Don’t Cramp My Style With Your Boring Rote Learning (Man) attitude is prevalent in teaching. At least American. They argue that it is wrong for the same reason that the author does.

But saying this to a programming crowd must be the most futile thing. At least instrumentalists have to rote train their muscle memory. That lowest bar has to be passed, even if it’s just three chords.

But the article isn’t about programming creativity though. It is a general concept. But if honing in on the mythical lone-genius activity (geniuses never practice in a structured way) helps you win an argument then so be it.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#123
post #15
post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

Thanks for reading and the response! One of the points I'm trying to make is that taste and elegance fundamentally stem from an internalized heuristic -- which at it's core is memorization. I understand the connotation of "memorization" evokes an image of blindly memorizing without connecting, but isn't the tastefully developed expertise just memorization of a better heuristic?

Why are you attached to the word "memorization" here? Certainly taste comes from experience and learning. Maybe you could argue that all learning is an oblique and imperfect form of memorization—but why argue that at all?

The only reason I can see is if you think memorization could be a shortcut to good taste, which it can't. Acquiring good taste requires broad experience—more information than you can possibly remember—such that you retain a suite of sophisticated intuitions. Cutting that information down to something that can be memorized would require you to (1) already have the intuitions you're seeking to acquire, and (2) be able to express them all in plain English, which, as far as I know, cannot be done. No painter has ever expressed their aesthetic in such a way that a student could memorize that expression and then have the same creative sensibilities as the original painter.

Ultimately, there's no substitute for the process of simply consuming lots of art while paying close attention to what you like about it.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#124
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

I think I would call it internalization instead of memorization. People memorize equations not knowing what the variables are, others internalize the concepts of what is trying to be calculated.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#125
post #111

Developing heuristics to categorize patterns and internalize concepts != memorization. If anything, it is the opposite of memorization.

Completely -- it's sort of glanced over in my post as an intermediary step to get the next "thing to be memorized" for two reasons:

1) I've often found these heuristics from books/online/mentors and just had to memorize instead of create them

2) In my own experience heuristic creation has been less of a bottleneck than committing to memory

But it is certainly a key piece of info to have

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#126
post #60

I was the sort of person who did not believe in memorisation as a solution for anything. Then I tried getting really good at spaced repetition for a year (yes, it is a skill that needs to be trained for good results) and I've completely changed my mind. Spaced repetition allows me to become proficient even in things I don't get the natural opportunity to practise daily, so that when the day comes and I need them, I h…

I really enjoyed both blog posts, thank you for sharing! And I have to say, your explanation of the subexponential distribution property was remarkably clear for someone without a background in statistics :)

Would you mind sharing the flashcards you generated to build this intuition? I've been using Anki for a while and really trying to focus now on improving my prompt writing; would love to see how you managed it for this problem.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#127
post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

> Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts.

Of course it is. It's how every human child learns initially. By rote memorization. How does a toddler learn how to say mama? By constantly hearing and repeating it. How does a kid learn their ABCs? Rote memorization is the basis of all memory.

> Memorization in programming gives us architecture astronauts and design-pattern soup rather than elegant code.

Dumbest thing I've ever read. You write programs well by doing and remembering. Same with writing. Memorization is the necessary component to programming well. In other words, you program well by remembering elegant code.

> For me, at least, trying to memorize something without context

After the basics, most memorization is contextual.

> At the same time, memorization has a real cost: it takes time and it's frightfully dull.

Oh dear. Something isn't fun all the time. What a childish worldview. It's more fun to eat candy and drink soda than eating 'dull'. It's more fun to sit and watch youtube than to workout.

> Sometimes a bit of memorization is unavoidable, but I've found that to be relatively rare.

Relatively rare? In order to be competent in anything, you have to memorize lots. You can't write a good essay without having memorized much of the material. Trying reading a book where you have to constantly look up definitions of words because you lack the vocabulary. Try having a conversation with someone who has to constantly look up words because he lacks the vocabulary. Try having code review with someone who doesn't remember anything about their code.

> Otherwise, my time is generally better spent on some sort of practice in context.

Why? Because it helps you remember?

To the idiot ( probably OP ) who downvoted, try coding without having 'memorized' the keyboard. The anti-intellectual, anti-hard work, anti-memorization agenda pushed by some 'people' online bears looking into.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#130
There is deliberate practice for skill-building. There is exploratory "making" that fuels originality. There is inspiration hunting and incremental tweaking to get to creative mutation. There is high productivity that triggers eventual ingenuity. I find the article hyperbolic in its thesis and execution especially when it comes to the final hand-wavy bit about how there is more per-capita creativity in non-rote learning.

While its hard to prove or disprove without a long study to prove or disprove the author's claim, I'm willing to die on the following hills:

1. Kumon sheets are the antithesis to creativity 2. Understanding is not a form of memorization (not the rote variety anyway)

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