If this is a "slow" pool, then should we toss world records from "fast" pools? There are a lot of other events where factors affecting performance aren't completely controlled. Perhaps comparing records across different times and places is meaningless.
Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
121–130 of 344 posts
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#122I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…
>A lot of this is perception vs. reality,” he said. “If you were to talk to many very accomplished coaches, they would say the pool has to be a minimum 3 meters deep. Most of our research shows that anything over 2 meters is frivolous. … Obviously, some depth is very important. But after a certain point, it's diminishing return. Maybe it's just the swimmers and not the pool as such
Perception is everything. If the pool 'feels fast', you'll feel like you're on your way to your best, which is a huge boost to your motivation. The converse is also true.
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or maybe there’s something else going on? There are a lot of other variables in a pool except depth, no? Maybe water tension, density, viscosity? Someone else mentioned the walls of the pool also influencing the wave properties in the pool. Just noticing the pool being more shallow and people swimming slower doesn’t mean that’s the reason.
Explain to us how water "tension", density, and viscosity are variables that would change? It's just water, and temperature is set at ~25 C. The shape of the pool and gutter setup are the only major factors at play, assuming the filtration system isn't causing major currents.
Yeah but it's not just "water", as in plain H2O. All water has different things dissolved or mixed into it. In pools there's commonly several chemicals added to that water: to correct the pH for humans, to sanitize, control corrosion of metal, avoid calcium deposits on other surfaces, etc. It's entirely possible that the additives in the water could be way off of normal and somehow affect things like viscosity or surface tension.
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#124If this is a "slow" pool, then should we toss world records from "fast" pools? There are a lot of other events where factors affecting performance aren't completely controlled. Perhaps comparing records across different times and places is meaningless.
No, in the same way that all Marathon records are set in only a few marathons which have very favorable conditions.
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#125I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…
Dumb question I never thought about: do the circulation/filtration pumps get turned off during races? And for what minimum time before hand to let things settle? If so, I guess this would be a serious competition only thing because you wouldn’t want them off for hours.
They do, but circulation cannot be totally stopped. This is a greater problem in outdoor pools but any pool will have some sort of temperature gradient that will inevitably result in circulation. Any water movement means slower times, at least in those events longer than 50m (1 length).
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#126In addition to physical issues raised (7ft depth, configuration of sides), I wonder if there might be any other reasons that aren't mentioned at all in the article…
Something causing these elite athletes to be a bit off their game? Whatever could it possibly be…
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/07/31/us...
- https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/team-gb-swimmer-m...
- https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/30/paris-...
- https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-10061397
Yup, no idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#127What I remember from the London Olympics is that records don’t fall from the sky, but venues can be planned/ optimised for them. Maybe this did not happen in Paris so much? See this bit on the Velodrome in London: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/making-tracks-building-th...
In Paris they didn't want to build a white elephant swimming venue that will never get filled outside of the Olympics. So instead they converted an indoor stadium, the Paris La Défense Arena that is normally used for rugby and concerts.
You can see in the timelapse video here[1] the pool being built above the surface. They built it to a depth of 2.15m, the minimum required is 2m, but the recommended depth is 3m.
I can only assume that making it deeper would have cost more, and perhaps reduced the sightlines from the stands as the pool would have been higher in the arena?
[1] https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/29555045/paris-2024-olympics-...
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Competitive Olympic swimmers in G20 countries aren't always rocket scientists and brain surgeons ... BUT .. thay are frequently coached by teams that include leading sports scientists with degrees in fluid dynamics | applied mathematics | etc. Australia, as one example, took swimming (and a few other sports) next level with a plethora of studies on all things performance related. Any theorectical results from, say, C…
The powerhouse swimming nations (USA, China, Australia, Canada, UK, etc) are so far ahead of everyone else it isn't even close anymore. My niece was not fast enough to be invited to the trials this year (missed by .03 seconds in her favorite event), but her time would have put her into the second heat in Paris. She's the ~150th fastest person in the USA, but would have come in ~25th place in the Olympics. It's the sa…
Feels like you're missing a variable here. If your nieces time in a fast pool would be 25th in Paris, that means her time in Paris will be slower than that, because now she's in the slow pool, right?
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would the swimmers in the center lanes have any advantage by being furthest away from the wall-induced chop?
It would be interesting to see a comparison of lane effect, say for instance, re-running a race after let's say a weeks rest with the top finishers now nearest the side walls and the lowest finishers in the center lanes. Oh and for incentive, let's say the average of their two times determines the winners.
The human factor would make this very difficult. A more scientific test might be to use RC boats with tightly regulated power outputs, with a wave machine to ensure consistency.
Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?
#130I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…
I actually did a fairly lengthy research project on pretty much exactly this as a physics undergraduate - I wasn’t looking at swimming specifically, but rather boundary separation and Reynolds number in an open channel of varying depth. The setup was simple - a constant head vessel to provide a constant but adjustable flow of water in from one end, and a little plastic boat sat in the middle of the channel, attached…
Does it manifest directly? The water has had some time to settle when they start.