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Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

newscientist.com

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Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#121

Post by anal_reactor »

pfdietz wrote: post #108
anal_reactor wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Risks are about trade-offs. If the American Cancer Society wants to be helpful and actually listened to they need to provide practical actionable advice, not this cop-out. I feel like the medical community is slowly starting to finally realize that they can't force patients to minmax their lives. Why would I live a long life that isn't enjoyable?

I'm sorry if you feel the ACS is trying to force you to do something just by making a recommendation. Feeling a bit fragile, are you?

Of course I am fragile, I'm just a single individual thrown into the society of 8 billion people, what are you expecting

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#122

Post by za3faran »

scientator wrote: post #102
hollerith wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving cars and riding in cars tend to have large benefits whereas alcohol does not.

Alcohol can have large benefits for helping people to bond and socialize. The article itself pointed this out. Of course people can socialize without alcohol. But I think it's plausible to argue that alcohol in moderation can improve and deepen the experience.

People can bond and socialize over other things, including tea and coffee. We see this in cultures that do not use alcohol.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#123

Post by stephenbez »

IshKebab wrote: post #72
pfdietz wrote: post #5

Ethanol is metabolized to acetaldehyde. Aldehydes form crosslinks between proteins and DNA (and DNA with itself). Inactivation of the aldehyde-metabolizing ALDH2 enzyme (which happens in 50% of East Asians) increases risk for various disorders including cancer and late-onset Alzheimer's. Cancers linked to alcohol use: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-... The American Cancer Society recommen…

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight !! Risks are about trade-o…

I wish they would be more clear about how bad drinking is otherwise everyone tends to see it the same.

A friend of mine wouldn’t eat non-organic blueberries because he heard they suck up tons of pesticides so ate more eggs and sausage instead for breakfast.

Is the magnitude of health benefit of going from 2 drinks a day to 1 drink a day equivalent to or 1/20th the benefit of an average American walking an additional 20 minutes per day?

I don’t have the source with me now but I read that in my example above, it would save about 650 lives a year compared to 175k+ due to overall alcohol use.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#124

Post by weweweoo »

djaouen wrote: post #115
quickthrowman wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propranolol, I assume? Much safer than alcohol and very good at reducing social anxiety/stage fright in my experience.

I was actually thinking of buspar although [Edit: redacted confusion between metoprolol and propranolol].

Buspar seems interesting, but somehow SSRI is what doctors describe by default over here for any anxiety disorders.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#125

Post by coldtea »

pfdietz wrote: post #47
ImHereToVote wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acetaldehyde is also be metabolized by the brain for energy. May be why some people get so addicted.

I think it would be preferable to fuel your brain with something that isn't also a carcinogen.

Given that everything is a carcinogen if you read such studies, but most of it is nowhere important enough to worry about, I'm not sure...

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#126

Post by [deleted] »

hollerith wrote: post #95
IshKebab wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight !! Risks are about trade-o…

Driving cars and riding in cars tend to have large benefits whereas alcohol does not.

[deleted]

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#127

Post by coldtea »

hollerith wrote: post #113
scientator wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol can have large benefits for helping people to bond and socialize. The article itself pointed this out. Of course people can socialize without alcohol. But I think it's plausible to argue that alcohol in moderation can improve and deepen the experience.

OK good point, but MDMA is much better for that according to many comment here on HN over the years. Also if I go drinking with someone I don't know well, the risk of their becoming violent is quite high.

>Also if I go drinking with someone I don't know well, the risk of their becoming violent is quite high

In what kind of society or social circles is this true? Here it's common to socialize and meet strangers over a drink or two, and the risks of their becoming violent is near zero.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#128

Post by coldtea »

hollerith wrote: post #112
Zardoz89 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

Do you want a source for my assertion that there are benefits to getting from where you are to where you want to be using cars? "Randomized placebo-controlled study of the benefits of personal mobility", Stravro and Chunk, 1999.

>Do you want a source for my assertion that there are benefits to getting from where you are to where you want to be using cars?

Have those made-up sources included externalities, from air and noise pollution, to city planning, commutes, lifestyle changes - include pressure and stress added to the individual by the extra speed of going places?

Have they asked those pesky "walk and/or take the public transport" Europeans living in suitable cities, if they prefer their way?

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#130

Post by ryandrake »

anal_reactor wrote: post #98
IshKebab wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight !! Risks are about trade-o…

> Risks are about trade-offs. If the American Cancer Society wants to be helpful and actually listened to they need to provide practical actionable advice, not this cop-out. I feel like the medical community is slowly starting to finally realize that they can't force patients to minmax their lives. Why would I live a long life that isn't enjoyable?

I think we learned in 2020-2021 that if the medical community doesn't put out an extremely strong statement about something, the general public won't take it seriously at all.

When the ACS recommends avoiding alcohol consumption at any level, they don't think people are actually going to suddenly quit drinking. They're just trying to convince that guy who drinks two six-packs a night to cut down to one six-pack a night.

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