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The secret of Minecraft (2014)

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Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#121
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's stewardship of Minecraft has been fantastic. Simplicity has never been a key element of Minecraft - redstone circuits were added years before the acquisition. The sheer quantity of weird and delightful stuff they've added has kept Minecraft new and interesting for over a decade.

Tbh Microsoft hasn't done anything near as impressive as the modding community. It's nice that they are still developing the Java edition so the modding community can continue though Check out the Create mod If Microsoft ever adds anything as cool as that to Minecraft, I may agree with you that they are keeping it new and interesting

The Vault Hunters mod(pack) is pretty great too (includes create, but adds good RPG elements without being an RPG)

Create is the most Minecrafty mod for sure

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#122
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells you to cut down a tree and make a crafting table, beyond that there isn't anything (bedrock edition may be different I haven't touched it in a while)

Even in Java there is a built in recipe book that tells you how to craft items that you have the resources for.

The recipes are such a small amount of the secret knowledge now. There are so many quirks to the game to discover, even people playing 10+ years still find joy in discovering them (or being taught).

Community is a huge aspect, shared learning, collaboration, cooperation

Imagination also plays a big role. You have to create your own story and see things not as they are, but as what they are to the story. It's reminiscent of childhood and play. HermitCraft is the most notable example of this, but it's pervasive, especially among builders. (i.e. put a railroad on a smoker to make a grill, flower pot as a cup, extended piston as a table, or a fence post with a pressure plate as a table)

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#123
post #106

He makes a good point about "secret" knowledge, but I don't think that's the real secret. I believe almost everyone, including the author here, misunderstands what made Minecraft take off. It was NOT just the fact that you have creative control (which is what most people mistakenly assume is the main point) or that you need to learn how to craft to advance, or the procedural generation. It was the _combination_ of al…

Notch didn’t nail it all on his own though - Zach Barth nailed a bunch of those crafting and world manipulation and building mechanics in Infiniminer. Notch was screwing around cloning infiniminer in Java and Minecraft is kind of what popped out.

Obviously he wasn’t as interested in the PVP combat mechanics that Zach built, so he ended up leaning into survival, and had some ideas about how to extend the procedural generation ideas to make an infinite world, so… he ran into a slightly different spot in the game design universe.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your complaint is essentially that Microsoft released a new version of the game under the same name, which is not compatible with the old one because it's not actually quite the same game. That's a reasonable complaint, but doesn't constitute "losing" anything. I'm still following some of the same Java Edition YouTubers that I've been following for more than 10 years now (and they're still producing content weekly!).…

We've indisputably lost whatever Minecraft would be today if notch hadn't sold it. We can't know what that is, maybe it would've sucked. What we got instead feels like just another corporate studio game, a good one, yes, but we already have a lot of those.

I feel you. Modern minecraft updates feel immensely tone deaf

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#126
post #83

I'm almost surprised nobody mentioned beta 1.7.3 yet. Some people, myself included, consider it to be the last good version of the game. It came before the adventure update, beta 1.8, in 2011. To put it simply, 1.8 is the inflection point where Minecraft stopped being a sandbox and started being, as I once saw someone call it, a "pseudo-RPG". Obviously, this view is not common (EDIT: judging by some responses, maybe…

Have you tried Better than Adventure[0]? It's a fork of Beta 1.7.3 for exactly this reason! [0] https://www.betterthanadventure.net/

Thank you for sharing, all this talk of beta 1.7.3 (which is over 10 years old, my goodness how time flies) has made me nostalgic to try it, and this might be what convinces me to, since without anything new I probably would set up in a cave and then quickly quit.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#127
post #104
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played a lot of Minecraft and I still remember beta 1.7.3 very fondly -- albeit for different reasons -- but I want to offer a differing perspective. I have always struggled with balancing my desire to create with my capability to create, in and out of Minecraft. I would get so inspired by all the awesome things people built, that I could never graduate from my barebones cave-with-chests because my desire to mak…

I don't remember the specific version (s) I played. I remember being kinda depressed and burned out. Although I didn't discover them, water ladders and cart boosters were so much fun. That feeling of almost cheating, using the bugs in the system to do magic things was so much fun. I'd definitely credit Minecraft for rekindling some love for hacking, in the classic, non crack sense, but, matrix like, bending the rules…

I agree, it's crazy to think how much content has been added to the game since beta 1.7.3 because I remember thinking at that time that there already was so much. Like you imply, there were all sorts of unintentional tricks to add to your bag: cart boosters, all manner of BUDs, placing a water source beneath your feet to prevent fall damage. But I think part of that feeling of wonder is nostalgia, since playing now I am not really bothered by powered rails, observers, and feather falling -- nor do I think I would be if they had been introduced from the get-go.

And of course redstone. What a lovely idea in retrospect.

Thank you for helping me revisit these memories.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#128
post #102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played a lot of Minecraft and I still remember beta 1.7.3 very fondly -- albeit for different reasons -- but I want to offer a differing perspective. I have always struggled with balancing my desire to create with my capability to create, in and out of Minecraft. I would get so inspired by all the awesome things people built, that I could never graduate from my barebones cave-with-chests because my desire to mak…

Well put. > It used to be that you reach resource satiation quickly, but now it will take hours to [do so...] I think this may actually be the most important point. It is also not true, but also is at the same time, I feel. If "resource satiation" refers to the ability of the player to build/do whatever they want, then it is true. If "resource satiation" means "having enough resources", then for some people it is imp…

> If "resource satiation" refers to the ability of the player to build/do whatever they want, then it is true. If "resource satiation" means "having enough resources", then for some people it is impossible by nature. There's always a temptation to do more and build more.

Just to clarify my point, when I refer to satiation I mean it in the same way one might feel about MMOs. OK, let me be honest here, I don't play any MMOs but my understanding is that after you "beat" the game and max your level, one thing that might bring you back outside of new content is obtaining all the best gear, different skins, whatever you might want to collect. In the same vein, in Minecraft you could imagine wanting to obtain the best armor, weapons, food, etc. In some of the servers I played on, there were players who lived in a ramshackle hut and spent most of their time mining to get enough diamonds for gear -- and after a certain point they ran out of things to improve upon for their player character so they started looking for rare items in dungeons (remember when mossy cobble was a rare item?). At some point, they had gotten enough, and saw no further reason to keep playing. An extreme case, but not completely dissimilar to my own.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#129
post #106

He makes a good point about "secret" knowledge, but I don't think that's the real secret. I believe almost everyone, including the author here, misunderstands what made Minecraft take off. It was NOT just the fact that you have creative control (which is what most people mistakenly assume is the main point) or that you need to learn how to craft to advance, or the procedural generation. It was the _combination_ of al…

Notch didn’t nail it all on his own though - Zach Barth nailed a bunch of those crafting and world manipulation and building mechanics in Infiniminer. Notch was screwing around cloning infiniminer in Java and Minecraft is kind of what popped out. Obviously he wasn’t as interested in the PVP combat mechanics that Zach built, so he ended up leaning into survival, and had some ideas about how to extend the procedural ge…

I certainly agree that Notch was standing on the shoulders of giant, brilliant Barth, and without Infiniminer we would never have gotten Minecraft. Zach's game design is so good that it makes you want to build, or build better games. You can clearly see the inspiration that took hold and the potential that Infiniminer and all Barth's other games absolutely exude. His games are worth playing not to sink time into but to simply breathe in. There's little else quite like it.

But I think even then this unfairly discredits Notch. Regardless of what you think of the man, he certainly did nail it all on his own. He didn't just clone Infiniminer -- there's surprisingly little left in common at this point -- he used it as a springboard to invent what is essentially a new genre. You see the same sort of ingenuity in Fortnite and Roblox, who certainly have Minecraft and by lineage Infiniminer DNA in them, among others.

The difference is that, for a very long time, Minecraft was Notch, and what he did with it is still arguably unparalleled today. It's staggeringly good for a single person. The simple core loop was incredibly ripe for iteration. But the ingenuity the game is absolutely littered with, dozens of little things, tiny decisions made between pre-alpha point releases, is all Notch. In so many ways the game made itself, like a chain reaction of features, but Notch himself is just totally engrained in the whole thing. It's nuts.

To say he didn't nail it all on his own, I simply cannot agree with. Zach Barth and Notch both made something incredible. The shame is that no one ever gave Zach Barth the comically oversized sack full of money he deserves. I will surely never fire up Infiniminer again, but I could fire up Minecraft at any time and instant fall back into the engrossing loop of the game. Though it's been many years since I last played, I inevitably will again.

I've struggled to think of an analogy here... perhaps the closest I can come up with is Quake and Half-Life, which are even more closely related. Did Valve stand on the shoulders of giants? Absolutely. But they definitely nailed it all on their own.

We all build atop the works of others.

Re: The secret of Minecraft (2014)

#130
post #106

He makes a good point about "secret" knowledge, but I don't think that's the real secret. I believe almost everyone, including the author here, misunderstands what made Minecraft take off. It was NOT just the fact that you have creative control (which is what most people mistakenly assume is the main point) or that you need to learn how to craft to advance, or the procedural generation. It was the _combination_ of al…

Notch didn’t nail it all on his own though - Zach Barth nailed a bunch of those crafting and world manipulation and building mechanics in Infiniminer. Notch was screwing around cloning infiniminer in Java and Minecraft is kind of what popped out. Obviously he wasn’t as interested in the PVP combat mechanics that Zach built, so he ended up leaning into survival, and had some ideas about how to extend the procedural ge…

When Apple released the iPhone, several smartphones were in existence. But the iPhone created a much more cohesive and simplified experience compared to those. There's merit in that.
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