New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#121

Post by eli » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:43 PM UTC

wfarr wrote: post #47

ioquatix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a current MBP with both 8GB and 16GB of memory. I found that with 8GB, performance is excellent. With 16GB, I normally have about 6-7GB free - Mac OS X normally uses the rest for a filesystem cache but it doesn't really affect performance that much in my experience. 16GB is going to be enough for quite a while...

Not to mention, the glaring problem people like to ignore when discussing this is the motherboard in the MBP is only going to support so much memory anyway (would not be surprised if it could only support 16gb), so talking about not being able to upgrade it to 32/64/whatever is common then is kind of moot.

Sure, but I think the issue is that if you ever want 16GB, you have to buy it now at Apple's price: $200 for an extra 8GB.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#122

Post by feralchimp » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:45 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

> you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one

Whenever I get the urge to write something like that, I ask myself: "Am I in the target market for this?"

A product built to these tolerances is not one that a rational person (even a competent one, with experience fixing computers) should want to crack open. Make the professionals worry about getting in and out of it, and enjoy the fact that they'll be liable for anything they break in the process.

"Not user serviceable by design" != "disposable by design." You're not wandering across a post-apocalyptic desert wasteland with this thing; take it to a f'ing Apple Store and grab a coffee while the infrastructure wrenches on it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#123

Post by freehunter » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:45 PM UTC

taligent wrote: post #82

freehunter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for a pro laptop... my pro laptop (Thinkpad) is hooked into a docking station right now. My external monitor, some USB drives, and ethernet are plugged into the dock. When I undock, I'm going mobile so I don't need an external monitor, USB hard drives, and I can work on wifi. In my ~3000 person office, this is by far the norm. Access to some systems are locked down on an IP address basis, assuming you'll be plug…

You just need to understand that you have become an edge case. The 1%. People just aren't using Firewire, Optical Drives and Ethernet like they use to. And compromising the entire computer just to satisfy a minority isn't good business. And absolutely isn't Apple's style. Most things are more expensive when you aren't buying the mainstream option. In your case having to buy the Superdrive, Firewire and GigE adapters.

You just need to understand that you have become an edge case.

It's called the Macbook Pro. Firewire is huge in cameras still. Optical drives are still big in AV work. Ethernet is still important in corporate networks. By default, professionals are not mainstream. This is a 100% consumer laptop. Calling it "Pro" is just disingenuous when there's not a single professional aspect about it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#124

Post by super_mario » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:46 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #116

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things up in certain other criteria.

Besides it is well understood in technical circles where Apple is headed. Make no mistake. Their goal is to kill general purpose computers, and replace them with appliances they control.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#125

Post by bonzoesc » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:47 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #44

LinXitoW wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impressive, but considering the obvious compromises(replaceable components and ports) and the probable compromises(harder serviceability) i wouldn't quite call it a miracle. I also don't understand what the rationale is behind sacrificing Pro features for size on a laptop marked "Pro".

I can well imagine some pros who view upgrading RAM as a very important, even vital feature. I can also view many pros who view the thinner size as far more important. As it turns out Apple also makes a not thinner "pro" laptop you can upgrade the RAM on so what's the big deal?

As a professional computer user, I'd much rather buy the computer with the RAM and not worry about upgrading it later. Professional truck operators buy the truck already customized for the job they need it to do, and don't just walk on to the dealership, buy one, and then weld shit to it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#126

Post by moron » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:48 PM UTC

polshaw wrote: post #56

nicksergeant wrote: post #3

How is this news? I think it's well known that the new Retina-MBPs have made some hardware-upgradeability sacrifices in exchange for portability.

I struggle to see this as anything but a planned obsolescence, anti-3rd party power grab given the minute additional space required to use a replaceable RAM stick. The SSD is on an add in board, also between the main board and base.

That's because you don't care about having a thin, light computer, or you see the trade-off as being not worth it. Other people feel differently. Sorry.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#127

Post by freehunter » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:49 PM UTC

henrikeh wrote: post #94

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

Kind of off-topic: I've got a T60 with a broken graphics card (Honestly, not sure, but all evidence points in that direction). It still works, there just isn't any image on the internal monitor (and severe problems on external). Can I fix the graphics card? Nope, but I can still install another OS and keep it running until something truly critical fails.

Dell used to make mini-PCIe video card on some of their laptops. No idea if they still do. I know on my Inspiron E1705 I had in 2006, I could swap the video card for a new one provided I could actually source a new one. I don't know anyone selling mini-PCIe cards outside of eBay, but it is possible to make a modular laptop.

Newegg actually sells barebone laptop kits.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#128

Post by ctdonath » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:49 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #124

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things u…

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing.

Um, you missed the last line of the post you replied to.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#129

Post by jwr » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:50 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

No need for profanity. Why the strong emotions?

To make a laptop this small and thin with this much stuff inside, you have to get rid of certain elements. Before calling people names I'd suggest you check if it is at all possible to fit two (you'd want TWO, right?) SODIMM slots in the space available.

Same goes for the battery — when I saw the first pictures of the internals, I said "well, they finally got rid of the integrated battery pack": you have to, if you want to get that much mAh into that little space.

It's a natural progression — an externally replaceable battery takes the most space, an internal (but still a single one) battery pack takes less, and a bunch of cells glued all over the place take even less.

I think it's a good compromise. I'd order a laptop with the amount of RAM and storage that I'll need over the next 2 years, which is the time I amortize the purchase over.

And — if you don't like it, just don't buy it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#130

Post by eli » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 1:51 PM UTC

polshaw wrote: post #118

rangibaby wrote: post #8

The mechanism Apple uses to allow user-replaceable RAM looks like it won't fit in the new case. (pic) [1] Apple have a habit of charging fairly outrageous prices for extra RAM - $375[2] for 16GB in the current Mac Pro, and that's not even for 8GB sticks. With that in mind, $200 for the upgrade to 16GB is not that bad, which is probably on purpose. [1] https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270#link1 [2] http://store.apple.c…

It's worth noting an 8GB DDR3 module of laptop RAM is $50. A pretty healthy 300% mark up.

Well, that's not fair.

They aren't charging you for an extra 8GB module, they are replacing your 8GB module with a 16GB module. What's the price difference between a single 8GB stick and a single 16GB stick?