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Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

endeavorrx.com

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Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#121

Post by tossandthrow »

latentsea wrote: post #87
umbra07 wrote: post #10

I've been on this for about a month and a half now. The game itself isn't engaging at all. It was a struggle to get myself to actually play the game regularly, for the allotted time (30 minutes, 5 days a week). It feels like a pretty big flaw with the game - after all, one of the challenges that people with ADHD face is forcing themselves to do things they don't want to do. This game is a complete bore, and I can't i…

I can barely get myself to play games I'm actually interested in, since there's always something slightly more interesting than that. I can imagine this would be not only a complete non-starter but also... how is this specific video game supposed to help?

My guess is that this is indeed what gaming would practic: prolonged focus on a single activity.

For me it seems like other games would also do, as long as they don't promote "scatterbrain".

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#122

Post by lewispollard »

lukas099 wrote: post #113
lewispollard wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I would be surprised if it were to do with "not liking them" and not "consistently getting them is highly difficult for a person with ADHD" due to their controlled status in most countries. In the US, from what I've heard, it's particularly draconian, where you're only allowed to get a new prescription on the day the last one runs out, and then have to take a paper prescription to a pharmacy where they often do…

> you're only allowed to get a new prescription on the day the last one runs out I think it's more like a week before.

You might be right, it might be that the pharmacy won't accept the prescription until the last one has run out, rather than when the doctor will prescribe a new one. Regardless, it's a really common complaint in ADHD support groups I'm a member of with members based in the US - every month is a hectic hoop-jumping exercise that, if you didn't know better, almost seems designed to be difficult for people with ADHD.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#123

Post by codr7 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #109
anonymoushn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if even 10% of people taking therapeutic doses of stimulant ADHD meds experience euphoria. IME the noticeable effect of taking 10mg of methylphenidate was that I could stand in my open plan office and not have every word of a dozen conversations invade my consciousness constantly. If I was working in an environment designed to allow people to focus on their work, I probably would not have noticed…

I wouldn't call it euphoria, but the first 10mg of methylphenidate I took kept me running around the house at high gear for almost an entire day, doing all kinds of non-critical chores that ordinarily were too boring and/or difficult to get into. Subsequent doses did not have anywhere near as drastic effect :). But, euphoria or not, on stimulants I can at least feel the change near-immediately. It's unlike pretty muc…

Oxy does the same for pain, also stops working pretty quickly.

The problem with both stimulants and opiates is overdosing will kill you pretty effectively, and many will eventually overdose if they keep using them long enough, chasing the initial effect.

Modern medicine unfortunately seems focused on creating ever more addictive substances and treatments, creating subscribers I guess, which says a thing or two about how well profit driven healthcare works in practice.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#124

Post by phito »

wordofx wrote: post #107
dailykoder wrote: post #77

>The current cost for EndeavorRx is $99 for a 30 day prescription. Why is everything subscription based nowadays? Even without a subscription $99 would seem a lot to me. I guess because something something server costs and update development? Or is it just plain greed? PS: Programming is absolutely fantastic, too, when you have ADHD (an probably even if you don't have it). It also doesn't cost a dime and there is ple…

Programming is not fantastic for ADHD. Especially when majority of people don’t have ADHD to begin with. They are looking for an excuse for their lack of ability to focus on a boring task. It’s subscription and expensive because it’s another way to suck the money out of people who think they have ADHD.

> Programming is not fantastic for ADHD. Especially when majority of people don’t have ADHD to begin with. They are looking for an excuse for their lack of ability to focus on a boring task.

An excuse, or an explanation?

I have ADHD and programming is and always has been fantastic for me, if the project is not boring.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#125

Post by TeMPOraL »

fragmede wrote: post #22
umvi wrote: post #18

FDA approves all sorts of software as a medical device that it doesn't rigorously test or understand. Completely serious - I bet Tetris could be approved by the FDA for ADHD treatment if The Tetris Company were willing to put in the effort for all the paperwork and fees.

equally seriously, if you ran proper scientific studies showing actual improvements with tetris because it's a very rules oriented game, vs something more abstract, like Stardew valley, isn't that actually a treatment?

If you ran them, and they did show actual improvement, and demonstrated the causal connection, then yes, it would be a treatment.

That is not what happened here, though.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#126

Post by wordofx »

phito wrote: post #124
wordofx wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming is not fantastic for ADHD. Especially when majority of people don’t have ADHD to begin with. They are looking for an excuse for their lack of ability to focus on a boring task. It’s subscription and expensive because it’s another way to suck the money out of people who think they have ADHD.

> Programming is not fantastic for ADHD. Especially when majority of people don’t have ADHD to begin with. They are looking for an excuse for their lack of ability to focus on a boring task. An excuse, or an explanation? I have ADHD and programming is and always has been fantastic for me, if the project is not boring.

[flagged]

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#127

Post by aleph_minus_one »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #79
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unironically yes. Neuroplasticity means that that is exactly a way to improve brain function. Not perfect, not universal, not the only way, but absolutely a working approach. (Obvious disclaimer: Not a doctor, not your doctor, this is not medical advice.)

Unironically wrong. That’s like saying the key to a kid being good at calculus is skipping the silly arithmetic and geometry topics and taking a calculus course.

As a mathematician, I say: if the kid is "somewhat mature" in mathematics, I wouldn't say this is necessarily a bad idea.

I honestly love to read mathematical textbooks that are quite above my current mathematical level and knowledge. It is brutal to go through and attempting to understand the material, but this is soooo rewarding.

This method of learning mathematics is clearly not for everyone, but if you are sufficiently motivated to go this way, and love the brutality innate to this method, I actually would recommend it.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#128

Post by TeMPOraL »

codr7 wrote: post #123
TeMPOraL wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it euphoria, but the first 10mg of methylphenidate I took kept me running around the house at high gear for almost an entire day, doing all kinds of non-critical chores that ordinarily were too boring and/or difficult to get into. Subsequent doses did not have anywhere near as drastic effect :). But, euphoria or not, on stimulants I can at least feel the change near-immediately. It's unlike pretty muc…

Oxy does the same for pain, also stops working pretty quickly. The problem with both stimulants and opiates is overdosing will kill you pretty effectively, and many will eventually overdose if they keep using them long enough, chasing the initial effect. Modern medicine unfortunately seems focused on creating ever more addictive substances and treatments, creating subscribers I guess, which says a thing or two about…

I don't know how bad are opioid overdoses, though my understanding is that for at least some products, the opioid is mixed with paracetamol, specifically in order so you die from OD-ing on the paracetamol before you get high on the opioid.

As for stimulant medication, I haven't heard of this being a real danger - not at the doses that prescription drugs have. Hell, I personally know a person who ate two boxes (i.e. 60+ tablets) of methylphenidate in a suicide attempt, and all they got from it was couple hours of hyperactivity, followed by a big headache, after ER flushed their stomach; they got discharged less than 24 hours later. But sure, if you drop the pharmaceuticals and go for illegal drugs, where the doses can be 100x as high, I guess you can mess yourself up pretty bad and rather quickly.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#129

Post by ivell »

wordofx wrote: post #126
phito wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programming is not fantastic for ADHD. Especially when majority of people don’t have ADHD to begin with. They are looking for an excuse for their lack of ability to focus on a boring task. An excuse, or an explanation? I have ADHD and programming is and always has been fantastic for me, if the project is not boring.

[flagged]

I think ADHD is a well studied phenomenon and to brush it aside as just a lack of motivation is unjustified. People with ADHD are unable to focus even if they have the motivation.

Re: Doctor-prescribed videogame for ADHD

#130

Post by Falkon1313 »

api wrote: post #33
ben_sisko wrote: post #29

Stimulant medication for ADHD has the highest effect size in all of psychiatry. ADHD is highly treatable, when people are properly treated. This just feels like something that somebody made for the parents who are pathologically drug averse at the expense of their children. Of course, the parents don’t realize that their kids don’t get that development time back, so the longer they wait, the harder things can get for…

Our stupid phobia of stimulants is a major blocker too. Making it hard to get ADD drugs does nothing to address abuse of street drugs like meth. Unlike opiates there is no evidence they lead people toward street drugs. I’m personally in favor of OTC availability of some kind of safe abuse resistant mild stimulant. Sure there are a few people who would try to get high with it but hard liquor and weed are legal.

Up until the 2000s, ephedrine and pseudoephedrine were sold over the counter at pretty much every truck stop, gas station, and convenience store. Usually at a big display rack at the checkout counter, where nowadays they might have things like '5 hour energy drink' stuff. Dirt cheap too.

And yes, people did use it recreationally. But it wasn't really a problem. If they took enough that their capillaries burst, they were the only ones getting hurt. And they could easily buy more for a few dollars at any store, so there was no crime associated with it.

Now it's illegal mainly because 'war on drugs' is fun for some people or something. Crime rates were dropping so they needed to invent new crimes.

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