GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#121

Post by lukan » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

jmholla wrote: post #112

rkangel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why gnu/linux without a terminal is totally usable and therefore accesible to the non programmer. /s Have you used modern Fedora? I have an old Thinkpad at home that I put Fedora on last year as our "sofa" laptop for web shopping etc. I took careful note of what I needed to do to set it up and that involved nothing on the command line to get to something good that my wife could happily use (not a techie, n…

Yea, the parent poster starts with a false premise. There are many Linux distros these days that laypeople can and do easily use: Ubuntu, Mint, PopOS, just to name a few.

False premise, well, I installed many people linux over the years and I personally use Arch. But my experience is apparently wrong.

And just because you can use something for internet, does not mean it satisfies user need in general. It satisfies some users needs. Those who need a little - those who understand the system. But the mainstreamusers in the middle .. continue to stay away for a reason. But hopefully more will invest in the change, with the forced win 11 change.

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#122

Post by lukan » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 2:46 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #99

lukan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The core is always the user and what they need." Which is why gnu/linux without a terminal is totally usable and therefore accesible to the non programmer. /s I agree that user centric developement should be the goal, but I hardly see it implemented. Free software programmers almost allways solved their own needs first, which is alright, because usually no one paid them to serve other peoples needs, but I seldom see…

> Which is why gnu/linux without a terminal is totally usable and therefore accesible to the non programmer. /s Have you used modern Fedora? I have an old Thinkpad at home that I put Fedora on last year as our "sofa" laptop for web shopping etc. I took careful note of what I needed to do to set it up and that involved nothing on the command line to get to something good that my wife could happily use (not a techie, n…

I did some years ago. But with using I meant more than the internet.

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#123

Post by CuriousSkeptic » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 2:53 PM UTC

pen2l wrote: post #72

zarzavat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the output is substantially similar to GPL’d training data it may be infringing. Nobody disputes this. However, copyright isn’t cooties. If the output is not similar, then it is not infringing regardless of how much GPL’d training data was used to generate it.

Suspend all knowledge of copyright law as it exists today for a moment and approach this hypothetical on first principles: a lot of GPL copyleft data is used in the making of an AI tool, that when asked for it, can itself recreate code similar to what was input... also, the creator of that AI tool will reap in all the profits without giving a single penny or even recognition of the value it guzzled from GPL data it w…

The GPL was never about money, recognition or even abut the creators at all. Copy Left was created “to promote computer user freedom”

Free Software already views all proprietary software as inherently immoral. So there is no need to take a detour of what went into making the software to reach that conclusion from that angle.

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#124

Post by cmiles74 » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 2:57 PM UTC

This article makes a compelling case that GitHub Copilot isn't infringing on our copyright but that doesn't change the fact that it's infringing on something.

A US corporation is slurping up as much open source code as they possibly can and spending bucketloads of money to build a product that they are going to sell for (possibly) more bucketloads of money. The people who worked hard on writing the open source code are getting nothing, except maybe a tighter job market. IMHO, it's hard not to take it personally and it's difficult to get away from the feeling that there is a real injustice taking place.

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#125

Post by deadbunny » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:11 PM UTC

lukan wrote: post #43

minot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Free Software community has made it clear from day 1 that the GPL can only achieve its goals through enforcement of copyright We should mention when we say this, although I think it is self-evident, that the preferable alternative is reducing the scope of copyright across the board -- be it with shorter time frames (I'd argue even twenty years total is too long!) or some other means. To programmers and develope…

"The core is always the user and what they need." Which is why gnu/linux without a terminal is totally usable and therefore accesible to the non programmer. /s I agree that user centric developement should be the goal, but I hardly see it implemented. Free software programmers almost allways solved their own needs first, which is alright, because usually no one paid them to serve other peoples needs, but I seldom see…

Maybe their target user isn't the one you're basing your opinion of what a user is?

Take vi(m). It's not intuitive to your suggested target user and has a learning curve shaped like a cliff. So it fails to provide for what you consider a "user". However it serves it's actual target users very well.

Arch doesn't position itself towards what you have presented as a user, Mint might however as they have very different target audiences. Not everything has to be designed to the lowest common denominator.

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#126

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:20 PM UTC

qjakdx wrote: post #74

carom wrote: post #20

This is missing the largest argument in my opinion. The weights are the derivative work of the GPL licensed code and should therefore be released under the GPL. I would say these companies release their weights or simply not train on copyleft code. It is truly amazing how many people will shill for these massive corporations that claim they love open source or that their AI is open while they profit off of the violat…

He works for GitHub and has probably never written anything in his life: https://okfn.de/en/vorstand/

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright (2021)

#127

Post by lelanthran » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:22 PM UTC

lukan wrote: post #120

thwarted wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your issue is that someone who solved their problem didn't solve it in a way that you want or expect? Why does your opinion about their problem matter at all? Why does it matter to the person who makes their solution available that the common people won't? Using the terminal is not "programming". Non-programmers can use the terminal for many non-programming tasks. Imagemagick and netpbm-progs require no knowledge…

"The only difference from GIMP or Photoshop is that the UI/UX has a different efficiency metric (mainly because interactive image manipulation is more efficient when you are interacting visually). But the operations are just as discoverable" I know. Which is why the year of the linux desktop was such a success. "Why does it matter to the person who makes their solution available that the common people won't?" They ha…

> They have all the right not to care, but it still is not helping the goal of being useful for normal people.

That isn't the goal. I don't know why you keep saying that.

#128

Post by account42 » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

lukan wrote: post #80

xigoi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly don’t need to study IT to use Linux.

Well, let's put it like this. I did study IT and even I struggle at times. Or quite often, if I want to do something new. And I absolutey would have no idea, how to do anything serious, without the terminal. But a terminal is programming. So yeah, even a newb can learn to paste some commands quite quickly - but troubleshooting even trivial things, gets you into highly technical stuff very quickly. Do you consider man…

You think troubleshooting on any other OS is less technical? Isn't my experience unless you count the OS refusing to give you information required to troubleshoot at all as user friendlyness.

#129

Post by lukan » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

deadbunny wrote: post #125

lukan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The core is always the user and what they need." Which is why gnu/linux without a terminal is totally usable and therefore accesible to the non programmer. /s I agree that user centric developement should be the goal, but I hardly see it implemented. Free software programmers almost allways solved their own needs first, which is alright, because usually no one paid them to serve other peoples needs, but I seldom see…

Maybe their target user isn't the one you're basing your opinion of what a user is? Take vi(m). It's not intuitive to your suggested target user and has a learning curve shaped like a cliff. So it fails to provide for what you consider a "user". However it serves it's actual target users very well. Arch doesn't position itself towards what you have presented as a user, Mint might however as they have very different t…

"Take vi(m)."

Yeah, a code editor is by definition for developers.

The question here was about the OS in general. And it is a pretty established fact, that linux is popular with developers, but not with mainstream normal people. Unless linux comes in the shape of android, where everything linux is hidden and locked down.

#130

Post by account42 » Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 3:41 PM UTC

pdpi wrote: post #15

flaptrap wrote: post #4

Who are they trying to fool? Wholesale expropriation after stripping the license and authorship, while those in the open source community observe both of them very carefully. Give credit where credit is due, including paying the creators when the licensing is violated.

Context is important here. Reda was elected to the European Parliament as a member of the German Pirate Party, so his position here isn't "big businesses are entitled to your code", and more "this sort of wholesale expropriation is a consequence of our posture towards copyright in general".

> Context is important here. Reda was elected to the European Parliament as a member of the German Pirate Party

... and has since joined the board of GitHub.