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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#121

Post by rootusrootus »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #108
janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

It’s actually super easy to do but the public will hate it. Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price. That 2% cashback you get for using your Amex isn’t due to Amex generosity. That’s literally what retailers pay. Right now I will absolutely use my cc for anything I can. It’s literally cheaper than cash and users of cash subsidise all my purchases. The only way to fix this is to force…

That seems like it would get complicated fast. Doesn't cash have its own additional handling costs that don't apply to credit card users? I'm not sure it's as easy as saying cash users are subsidizing anyone else.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#122

Post by amaccuish »

smnrchrds wrote: post #38
janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

Canada's credit cards work on Visa, MasterCard, or Amex networks. However, debit cards work on a domestic network called Interac. About half of card transactions in Canada are debit card transactions. https://payments.ca/sites/default/files/PaymentsCanada_Canad... page 7 EDIT: In the past few years, many Canadian banks have started issuing dual-network debit cards that bear both Visa and Interac logos (sometimes Mast…

Sounds like a mirror of the Girocard here in Germany. My bank card now has both girocard and visa on it, and works online.

Allegedly, Wero, coming from the banks of the EU, should in the next year or two, unite all the similar national systems across Europe in to one, I guess kind of like UnionPay.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#123

Post by sofixa »

stavros wrote: post #114
sofixa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the main reason why card/phone payments are taking over. It isn't some grand conspiracy by banks/shadowy cabals/governments - it's just much more practical than to pay with cash. Also the fact that it costs less to accept card payments only than deal with cash for small places (coffe shops and the like). The correct course of action here is government regulations ensuring an even playing field for payment pro…

How is an even playing field going to help with the fact that you need permission to spend your money?

If there's a guarantee that, within reason (by that I mean, if you're literally trafficking people or something of the like, that's not reasonable), you can spend your money, what's the issue?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#124

Post by michael_vo »

throw0101b wrote: post #89
Magi604 wrote: post #45

I feel like it would be easy to just mandate stores to have to allow for cash transactions. It seems simple to enforce too, just walk into a store and try and by something with cash. If not, report/fine. As a Canadian, I also feel like there are so many more pressing issues right now, like housing, employment, inflation, immigration. Does this cash/cashless issue somehow affect one of these things?

> I feel like it would be easy to just mandate stores to have to allow for cash transactions. While cards have fees, cash has overhead too: you need to go to the bank for deposits, make sure you have enough change, worry about people walking in robbing your till (thus traumatizing staff), keeping a balance (to reduce 'shrinkage' from employees). Yes, it is "easy" to mandate it, but that is adding a 'regulatory burden…

Yeah totally agree. Every form of payment comes with pros and cons.

Maybe one idea is to come up with many alternative payment methods. In Africa I've read everyone pays with a phone number.

In USA government gives food bank cards loaded with money. Maybe a system where anyone can load cash onto a card easily through any ATM machine.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#125

Post by anttiharju »

janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

You may be interested in reading about digital euro https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...

Although it's nothing concrete yet afaik

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#126

Post by stavros »

sofixa wrote: post #123
stavros wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an even playing field going to help with the fact that you need permission to spend your money?

If there's a guarantee that, within reason (by that I mean, if you're literally trafficking people or something of the like, that's not reasonable), you can spend your money, what's the issue?

The issue is that there's no such guarantee.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#127

Post by rootusrootus »

akira2501 wrote: post #116
threeseed wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete with Visa/Mastercard.

When was the credit network used to finance terrorism? If we can't prevent terrorism then isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? We'd prefer if terrorists use cash? Or we believe that if they can't use Amex it's impossible to use cash and therefore terrorism is defeated? Also, when the startups compete with Visa/Mastercard, they prov…

> isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected?

Isn't that advantage precisely because of AML/KYC requirements on the networks?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#128

Post by nick_ »

lupusreal wrote: post #81
nick_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry are you trying to imply that the way various levels of US governments responded to recent left-wing protests has some conspiratorial parallel to the way the Canadian federal government responded to a right wing protest? The city of Ottawa's law enforcement officers were ordered to remove the protesters weeks before the federal government stepped in. The cops basically just didn't do their job. The emergency act…

Who said anything about the US government? Left wing protestors get plenty of leeway in Canada but right wing protestors get branded terrorists for being loud. Oh but it "wasn't done lightly", whatever that's meant to mean, so obviously it's kosher.

Oh I see. You're crazy.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#129

Post by sofixa »

stavros wrote: post #126
sofixa wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a guarantee that, within reason (by that I mean, if you're literally trafficking people or something of the like, that's not reasonable), you can spend your money, what's the issue?

The issue is that there's no such guarantee.

That's what I'm saying. Those are the things that need to be fixed, not cash mandates.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#130

Post by nick_ »

sbarre wrote: post #98
adamiscool8 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stuff they were protesting was very real, and those measures specifically caused disruption to hundreds of thousands of people's lives and sleep for months on end. The government turning to wartime measures so that privileged Ottawans living in some of the most affluent areas around the nation's capital can withstand a few honks for a few weeks is absolutely preposterous.

Lol do you actually live in Ottawa? Calling downtown near the Parliament buildings "the most affluent areas around the nation's capital" is pretty hilarious.

You can tell when people have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when they think downtown cores are where rich people live.
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