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Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

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Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#121
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't use Google services anymore, they've all but removed their customer support. You can't get them on the phone for anything. If your problem is that you're locked out of your paid YouTube prime account, their advice is to contact customer service by logging into your account (I can't, that's the problem). If you want to cancel the subscription, the best advice the internet has is to close your bank/…

Same. AWS support will literally log into your ubuntu server (not even an official AWS AMI) and debug your problem for you if you ask for it, that's how dedicated their support is. No idea how google cloud platform support operates, but I have my doubts they're as reliable.

This is highly unexpected. I use other Amazon services and their support is crap.

Why is aws different? Is it earning them so much money they find the support to be worth doing?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#122

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

> The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again.

Said like someone who hasn't run a customer service function ;)

I will agree in the totality. You can't automated away 100% of customer support, just like you can't automated away 100% of most human tasks.

You can automated away 90%+, and get most users answers faster than trying to staff enough humans in enough timezones.

If you don't believe that.....I'm gonna say it, you've never run a customer support function.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#123
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m pretty partial to the idea that this is not somewhere government needs to be involved

On the contrary, ensuring fair trading practices is precisely the area where government needs to be most actively involved in economic matters. What is the downside of clamping down on borderline fraud, exactly?

What do you mean "fair"? To me the idea of free/consensual exchange (backed by court-mediated disputes and bankruptcy protection) most resembles "fair". If you like a service, use it. If you don't, don't. The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there.

Your risk management is entirely your own concern. I would never want a paternalistic government dictating when and how I interact with the market. Why do you want to impose it on me?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#124

Consumer rights have taken such a beating in the internet age. If you look at pre-internet product categories there are all kind of protections on the books like minimum warranty lengths, lemon laws, etc. Meanwhile, with software products - even very expensive ones - you're at the mercy of the vendor and their ToS. The fact that you can't even get refunds (e.g. within 15 days or something) for most software is ridicu…

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Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#125

Consumer rights have taken such a beating in the internet age. If you look at pre-internet product categories there are all kind of protections on the books like minimum warranty lengths, lemon laws, etc. Meanwhile, with software products - even very expensive ones - you're at the mercy of the vendor and their ToS. The fact that you can't even get refunds (e.g. within 15 days or something) for most software is ridicu…

> The fact that you can't even get refunds

Maybe not in the US, but in the EU that's possible. Maybe all that outright opposition to regulation isn't necessarily a good thing...?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#126
post #4

It's ridiculous that this is necessary but I salute people for using the legal system instead of just feeling helpless.

Just to actually say what is probably obvious.. this means that corporations have found a way to outsource the costs of providing customer support to the tax paying general public, including those who are not even using their services and never heard of the company. Ag’s should not be requesting that this is fixed, but requiring it in no uncertain terms, and giving out massive penalties for every single time it’s all…

I don't know how small claims court works, doesn't the loser have to play for the court cost? Shouldn't that cover it?

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal take is that state has to mandate that systemic companies (>100M users or X $B in revenues) have to have high quality customer service at cost. It probably cost Meta $500-$2000 to adjucate hacked account case so it's unreasonable to ask company to do it for free (hackers/bots can also file those requests). I should be able to pay Meta $2000 to recover account if my business depends on it - even if it mean…

I don't actually think it's unreasonable. Meta probably earns $2,000 in a span of a few seconds. They can afford to provide users with basic services such as account recovery, that allow users to use the services under the terms that were agreed upon when the user's account was created.

Meta might make a lot of money, but the profit per user is probably quite low, and they make up for that by having billions of users. Customer support scales with the number of users, not the profit overall.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the cost (on their end) of a single customer support call to meta makes you a net financial loss for them. And how many customer support reps would they need to handle support for billions of users speaking every language on the planet? All that funded from advertising? Yikes. I suspect running a properly funded customer support line might be able to put the whole company in the red.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#128
post #23

Small claims court does get a company's attention. They either have to show up or lose. Not that showing up means a win. I'm surprised that someone had trouble serving a subpoena on Facebook. Looking up "Meta" in California Corporation Search brings up everything with "Metal" in it, which is a hassle. Their actual company name is "Meta Platforms, Incorporated". Search for "Meta Platforms" here.[1] California company…

To me this appears as a way to outsource customer service to an external entity funded by a cash flow to which Meta does not need to contribute. The courts are always going to exist, Meta is always paying its lawyers, so why bother hiring extra people to staff a support line? And by making support have to go through the legal system you've already cut out 90% of the support calls you would normally take. Financially,…

No company has (nor should have) any mandate to "customer service" beyond what the market demands. Dispute resolution is what courts are for. Meta already pays taxes that fund courts.

If courts are unable to keep up with demand generated by the modern digital economy, let's fix that. Making losers pay court fees would go a very long way towards solving the problem.

Re: Walmart, the other option is to just cut the aid. People won't work if they are not able to sustain themselves (calorically) on the pay. The best way to avoid these antipatterns is to stop enabling them.

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Edit in reply to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40744676 (rate limited):

There is another solution to this problem: reputation. There inevitably will emerge a spectrum of reputability among eg. used car salesman. It is your responsibility to manage your risk in regards to the reputation of the person you are transacting with, attend to the specifics of your deal, and to do your due diligence. So much is obvious in the world of business.

Also, in a world of prompt dispute resolution by efficient courts, with losers paying fees, shady businessmen who repeatedly violate contracts will quickly find themselves out of business. The problem we have is that our courts work on an 1800s timescale. We can fix this.

Re: social media, standards are already emerging. For instance the much contested device attestation standard attempts to fix exactly this problem. It'll work itself out in a decade or two, no intervention required.

> one of the roles of government regulation that can create a net economic gain

I disagree in principle. The role of the government of a free society is to create a nonviolent liberal ecosystem. Not to interfere in the outcomes that ecosystem produces.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#129
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had amazing sid card story with one provider, where they simply failed to send it upon registration. For a month and a half I wrote to their alive and embodied customer service agent once every 5 days explaining the situation. Each and every time they promised to resend it to me anew to the same or even to a different address. The place I live in never loses a single letter in a post system and delivers most of the…

They stopped paying their outsourced SIM Card burning and shipping vendor. This isn’t a state in their support database, which dutifully queued up requests as-if everything is fine. Eventually they paid their vendor and the requests got popped off the queue.

Or they were out of stock of a component, but same idea.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really true that they've outsourced the costs. Meta sending one of their lawyers to defend the company in small claims court a single time would be hundreds of thousands of times the cost of resolving the case using a customer service rep. Of course, this approach also generates costs for the taxpayer, which sucks for everyone.

But their lawyers are probably staff or have retainers anyway, so I doubt it costs them anything extra. Meanwhile if the legal system has to staff up and/or ignore other work then that cost is real

they can't do the usual work of checking contracts and tracking law changes and handling other more serious lawsuits... so does it mean Meta employs someone with a bar exam to answer support tickets at the courthouse?
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