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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

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Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#121

Post by greekanalyst »

The EU gets a lot of heat for many things (and rightfully so), but this is an area where it is actually doing wonders in favor of consumers.

Here is the directive adopted by the EU Council to promote the repair of broken or defective goods, also known as the right-to-repair (or R2R) directive:

"The directive adopted today enshrines a new right for consumers: the right to have defective products repaired in an easier, cheaper and faster way. It also gives manufacturers the incentive to make products that last longer and can be repaired, reused and recycled."

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2024...

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#122

Post by throwaway2037 »

user_7832 wrote: post #77
divan wrote: post #60

MHBKD recently made a video on Apple testing lab [1], and one thing he talked about and that was kinda new to me is seeing repairability as a spectrum. I.e. on one side is "indestructible" product and on the other is "perfectly repairable". And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. In a hindsight it seems obvious, still this video was the first tim…

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. I disagree on a fundamental level. You could say such a thing when talking about really small (micro/miniature) devices. But as size increases, the validity of such arguments rapidly goes down. A phone case/bumper for example - makes t…

    > For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech.
This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#123

Post by jimmydorry »

Youden wrote: post #95
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

It wasn't as simple as them wanting to make more money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY Key points from an AI summary: - Incandescent bulbs had to balance factors like light output, efficiency, and lifespan - hotter filaments produced brighter, whiter light but reduced bulb lifespan. - Longer-lasting bulbs were less efficient and produced dimmer, yellower light, so they were not simply "better" products b…

You're missing the fact that the Phoebus cartel fined members that sold lightbulbs lasting longer than 1,000 hours. Aftr reaching a stable equilibrium, it's not surprising that 1,000 hours remained the industry standard. It drove sales!

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-05-04/cheeri...

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#124

Post by kevingadd »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #108
bell-cot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.

When I lived in Hongkong, my oven failed after less than 10 years. When my landlord came to replace it, he told me that it was common due to the extreme humidity that eventually ruins the circuit boards. I'm still a bit skeptical of that explanation -- but he has probably replaced more "white goods" (refrig, oven, etc.) that I will in a lifetime. Weirdly, my washing machine by Bosch was tough as nails and never had a…

The washing machine was probably sealed much better against humidity since it would be in proximity to water all the time.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#125

Post by aembleton »

graemep wrote: post #43

Similar law in the UK. There is also trading standards who can sometimes help but the small claims court is fairly straight forward. On top of that if you pay with a credit card or any other form of credit specific to that purchase (e.g. a car loan) you also have a claim against the credit provider.

Don't usually need to even go to court anymore as there is a mediation step offered before court. I did this to get a refund for a smartphone that stopped working after a couple of years.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#126

Post by creshal »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #122
user_7832 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. I disagree on a fundamental level. You could say such a thing when talking about really small (micro/miniature) devices. But as size increases, the validity of such arguments rapidly goes down. A phone case/bumper for example - makes t…

> For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?

A variety of manufacturers has them, CAT e.g., but even Samsung has been having a line of them for over a decade.

Manufacturers also keep making phones with headphone jacks, sd slots, swappable batteries, and all the other features that people loudly insist they want in their phones, right until it comes to choosing a new phone to buy. Then they buy something thin and flimsy again and repeat the whine cycle; and every year another manufacturer drops their sturdy&servicable line because nobody cares enough to actually buy it.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#128

Post by aitchnyu »

Youden wrote: post #95
r4indeer wrote: post #21

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

It wasn't as simple as them wanting to make more money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY Key points from an AI summary: - Incandescent bulbs had to balance factors like light output, efficiency, and lifespan - hotter filaments produced brighter, whiter light but reduced bulb lifespan. - Longer-lasting bulbs were less efficient and produced dimmer, yellower light, so they were not simply "better" products b…

Which cartel is making consumer bulbs and streetlights with advertised 50000 hour led but with 5000 hour drivers? Indian market BTW.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#129

Post by creshal »

mschuster91 wrote: post #102
user_7832 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. I disagree on a fundamental level. You could say such a thing when talking about really small (micro/miniature) devices. But as size increases, the validity of such arguments rapidly goes down. A phone case/bumper for example - makes t…

> but many prefer a smaller thickness/bezel etc. There would not be an issue for Apple or Samsung to design a backplane that uses screws to hold the phone together, eliminating the need for glue entirely. It just looks a bit ugly.

It is so easy indeed that Samsung has been making such phones for over a decade. If people started putting their money where their mouth is, maybe they'd even sell.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#130

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

calyhre wrote: post #100
consp wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's weeks of legal battle over 300€. We are not alike. As soon as it costs them several tens of billable hours (people on phone, someone making appointments, discussions, emails, lawyer doing it's thing etc) I'm all fair game and will definitely spend my time screwing with them simply to make them pay even if I lose in the end. Since I'm going to be frustrated when I'm being screwed over I see no reason not repay…

Same here. It's also possible to buy a new one during the "fight" period, and resell/donate the repaired one after

Why ask for a repair at that point? At that point, demand the purchase price back.
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