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Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

jorgegalindo.me

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Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#121

Post by spacecadet »

therobots927 wrote: post #79
spacecadet wrote: post #40

4 day work work, 6 hour days, better pay, the freedom to spend as much time with the people you want, doing the things you want, without fear of financial ruin or bodily injury. Thats what workers want... not for the work place to replace their family. We do not need to be friends, I do not need to be nice to you. This whining comes from people who place work over all else and need work to be something other than it…

I’m guessing you work at a startup where you are nice 60% of the time? And I’m also guessing your coworkers actually give a shit about the job vs just trying to game the FAANG compensation algorithm?

I run a co-op consulting group.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#122

Post by hooverd »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

Government works just fine when you let them do things in house instead of going with "we just need to pay one more private contractor". Also pay more.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#123

Post by mgaunard »

therobots927 wrote: post #75
mgaunard wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you be kind as well to the people who repeatedly fuck up and don't care about delivering good processes or products?

Yep. You have to be. You can provide feedback to them or their manager if possible but the reality is that the employment status of your incompetent coworker is not under your control.

You're speaking under the assumption that "you" can't be a team lead or manager able to make the bad performer redundant.

Moreover as an IC there is a lot you can do; most importantly you can quit if you feel the team you're in is being mismanaged.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#124

Post by Kalium »

maccard wrote: post #65
mgaunard wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you be kind as well to the people who repeatedly fuck up and don't care about delivering good processes or products?

Yes. They’re still human and they deserve to be treated with respect. But part of being kind is being direct and honest, and holding people to account. If you ignore it, or let it fester you’re being unkind to other people

There's a great deal of nuance to how kindness is defined. It's very easy for one set of actions to be either very kind or very unkind, depending on definitions.

Listening, being respectful, and being empathetic may drive one person to bite their tongue and silence feedback that someone is performing poorly out of fear of hurting them or the morale of the team. Another may be driven by the very same things into giving candid feedback.

This article does not do a good job of exploring the difference. It just asserts "Being nice is the new punk".

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#125

Post by Kalium »

makeitdouble wrote: post #20
mirekrusin wrote: post #13

Being too kind can also be negative, I prefer honesty and reality above the rest.

You could say that hiding or refraining from giving critical feedback is not kindness.

This article readily conflates niceness and kindness. It would be very easy to read this and take away the understanding that critical feedback that leaves a person feeling in any way negative is not kindness.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#126

Post by sidcool »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

It's possible to be technically competent and kind. They're not mutually exclusive traits. One doesn't even need to be kind. Just don't be an asshole.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#127

Post by therobots927 »

mgaunard wrote: post #123
therobots927 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You have to be. You can provide feedback to them or their manager if possible but the reality is that the employment status of your incompetent coworker is not under your control.

You're speaking under the assumption that "you" can't be a team lead or manager able to make the bad performer redundant. Moreover as an IC there is a lot you can do; most importantly you can quit if you feel the team you're in is being mismanaged.

Well yes but you certainly can’t become a lead if you’re getting mad at people. At least in many situations you can’t. And yes you could quit, but the job market isn’t the best right now. And sometimes the jobs that pay more require dealing with less competent people so sometimes there are tradeoffs.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#128

Post by BeetleB »

codelikeawolf wrote: post #59

Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back[1], I think it's important to distinguish the two. Because they are noticeably different (at least to me) and shouldn't be used interchangeably. I want someone to be kind to me in a meeting. I think niceness could seriously inhibit progress. A kind person will tell me that an idea I have won't work, but they'll of…

I have to say: It's really annoying that some idiot who wrote a book in the 90's has resulted in everyone redefining "nice", when they should have invented a new word.

As far as the English language goes, what you define as "kind" is also "nice".

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#129

Post by therobots927 »

spacecadet wrote: post #121
therobots927 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing you work at a startup where you are nice 60% of the time? And I’m also guessing your coworkers actually give a shit about the job vs just trying to game the FAANG compensation algorithm?

I run a co-op consulting group.

Very cool concept! Is it software engineering focused, and do you have to invest in sales or marketing to get clients?

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#130

Post by BeetleB »

baazaa wrote: post #77

If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence? Because 100% fall in the latter category in my experience. One of the problems with engineers counter-signalling engineering values (like actual technical competence) is that we live in a world where those values are extremely underrated while every m…

> If we tallied up all technical projects in the Western world that failed, how many would be failing due to lack of kindness versus, say, straight-forwards incompetence?

That's like saying a company didn't fail because it ran out of money. It failed because no one was around to operate it.

A lack of kindness can lead to mistakes not being rectified, as well as the wrong type of folks doing the work.

(Classic case of false dichotomy).

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