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Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

theguardian.com

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Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#121

Post by stephenr »

verticalscaler wrote: post #120
stephenr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleased? No. A bunch of people died because a small minority of people wanted to be selfish fuck-holes. But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. You might as well claim that Australia has strict biosecurity rules and doesn't let you bring in a banana because of COVID lockdowns .

> But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. Thanks for calling me a pork chop and telling me what is wrongthink. Fire first, ask questions later.. It seems entirely outside your comprehension how such a thing might be abused. Furthermore you aggressively refuse to hear anyone out. Your country, your rules bud. I sincerely hop…

> what is wrongthink.

It's nothing to do with "wrongthink". It's a completely unrelated topic.

Imagine if you were involved in a conversation about the negative impacts of the tobacco industry on society, and I just jumped in with "cars are by far more dangerous than air travel".

Regardless of whether what I said is true, it has nothing to do with the existing conversation. You'll notice that I chose a very easy to prove fact for my hypothetical interjection here. You very much did not state a provable fact, but I'm going to ignore that because whether or not what you said is provable, it's still completely unrelated to the topic being discussed.

It's nothing to do with finding you "disagreeable". It's pretty basic etiquette when having a conversation.

I'm not really sure why you think I would be your border guard, or how you assume I would treat a person in that scenario even if I was? I very much dislike the policy being discussed - warrantless 'demands' to access a phone when crossing the border, I'm just trying to explain to you that

- (a) it's unrelated to COVID in any way; and

- (b) in my experience the assumption by foreigners (typically Americans but probably not exclusively) that Australians are all "hopping mad" about the government reaction to COVID is vastly overblown. A small number of very vocal, selfish shitheads protested and pretended to be people they're not (i.e. buying hi-vis gear to appear as if they're construction workers). The vast majority of the population has just the slightest bit of common decency and sense of community well being. There's a reason 5x as many cases in the US resulted in deaths, and why the death rate (i.e. deaths per n population) was 3.6x higher - and that's using data updated very recently, so it includes the past 12-18 months when restrictions have been lifted everywhere.

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#122

Post by verticalscaler »

defrost wrote: post #119
verticalscaler wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you can go online and find some very vocal Australians Specifically why I wrote lived experience. Which apparently makes me a pork chop. You can imagine the heartbreaks shared with me. They were not antivaxers by any stretch either. As for the phone searches and punishment for wrong think I can again only say: hear your fellow citizens out. If you’re happy, I’m happy. If everyone not happy MUST be a this or a…

You opened with: > Regardless of where you stand on Covid some countries have handled it extremely poorly in terms of civil liberties with Australia near the top of the list. That makes you a pork chop. At least to the person that used that term. You are holding some strong opinions that raise eyebrows. > You can imagine the heartbreaks shared with me. I can, you don't have a monopoly on stories heard and COVID was a…

> You opened with.. That makes you a pork chop. At least to the person that used that term. You are holding some strong opinions that raise eyebrows.

He specifically called me a pork chop for the "lived experience" as he himself says in his own post. What are my strong opinions that raise eyebrows please?

I mentioned I'm vaxed and said "regardless how you feel about Covid".

> I can, you don't have a monopoly on stories heard and COVID was at the root of many a sad tale.

Never claimed any monopoly. One last time, I'm specifically talking about listening to your fellow citizens offline not antivaxer types online.

> Which punishment for purely what thoughts are you referring to here ?

Should have just started there friend.

> there are far worse countries to visit and even those can be navigated safely enough if not comfortably.

I'm at about 100, no argument there either, that's very true.

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#123

Post by [deleted] »

stephenr wrote: post #121
verticalscaler wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. Thanks for calling me a pork chop and telling me what is wrongthink. Fire first, ask questions later.. It seems entirely outside your comprehension how such a thing might be abused. Furthermore you aggressively refuse to hear anyone out. Your country, your rules bud. I sincerely hop…

> what is wrongthink. It's nothing to do with "wrongthink". It's a completely unrelated topic. Imagine if you were involved in a conversation about the negative impacts of the tobacco industry on society, and I just jumped in with "cars are by far more dangerous than air travel". Regardless of whether what I said is true, it has nothing to do with the existing conversation. You'll notice that I chose a very easy to p…

[deleted]

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#124

Post by verticalscaler »

stephenr wrote: post #121
verticalscaler wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But again - as has been pointed out to you already, the policy in discussion is 100% unrelated to COVID, or lockdowns for that matter. Thanks for calling me a pork chop and telling me what is wrongthink. Fire first, ask questions later.. It seems entirely outside your comprehension how such a thing might be abused. Furthermore you aggressively refuse to hear anyone out. Your country, your rules bud. I sincerely hop…

> what is wrongthink. It's nothing to do with "wrongthink". It's a completely unrelated topic. Imagine if you were involved in a conversation about the negative impacts of the tobacco industry on society, and I just jumped in with "cars are by far more dangerous than air travel". Regardless of whether what I said is true, it has nothing to do with the existing conversation. You'll notice that I chose a very easy to p…

> It's nothing to do with finding you "disagreeable". It's pretty basic etiquette when having a conversation.

Please tell me more about this etiquette while calling me a foodstuff.

Indeed Covid is the unrelated topic, my opening words: Regardless of where you stand on Covid ...the original reasons for draconian law enforcement meant to be temporary are long gone..

The mentality however remains. I can only hope not permanently.

Not litigating the past, talking about the present. I say this with all sincerity, come back tomorrow perhaps and reread the exchange with fresh eyes.

> I'm not really sure why you think I would be your border guard, or how you assume I would treat a person in that scenario even if I was?

You would with some probability jump to conclusions that I'm part of the outgroup and treat me with a heavyhand as demonstrated by this whole exchange. These are not good vibes, hence, unpleasant and disappointing enough for me to steer clear. And I'm quite sure you are more reasonable than the typical border agent.

> in my experience the assumption by foreigners (typically Americans but probably not exclusively) that Australians are all "hopping mad" about the government reaction to COVID is vastly overblown

Wonderful, what does that have to do with this foreigner? Are you starting to understand the issue?

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#125

Post by defrost »

verticalscaler wrote: post #122
defrost wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You opened with: > Regardless of where you stand on Covid some countries have handled it extremely poorly in terms of civil liberties with Australia near the top of the list. That makes you a pork chop. At least to the person that used that term. You are holding some strong opinions that raise eyebrows. > You can imagine the heartbreaks shared with me. I can, you don't have a monopoly on stories heard and COVID was a…

> You opened with.. That makes you a pork chop. At least to the person that used that term. You are holding some strong opinions that raise eyebrows. He specifically called me a pork chop for the "lived experience" as he himself says in his own post. What are my strong opinions that raise eyebrows please? I mentioned I'm vaxed and said "regardless how you feel about Covid". > I can, you don't have a monopoly on stori…

> What are my strong opinions that raise eyebrows please?

>> Regardless of where you stand on Covid some countries have handled it extremely poorly in terms of civil liberties with Australia near the top of the list.

There are some people with first hand experience of Australia's handling of COVID that do feel it was the worst boot on neck draconian facist hellscape on the planet, yes.

There's a significantly larger majority that also have first hand experience that do not feel that to be the case in the slightest.

Myself and everybody I know locally spent most of the pandemic within Australia ( I left for an overseas trip and returned ); with the exception of overseas travel, I wore a mask maybe twice and never once experienced a lockdown or curfew. Of the people I know that did experience a lockdown | curfew following the few reports of infection not one of them complained about that being a problem as they understood the base issue. On my return from overseas I self isolated for 14 days which I have no issue with, it was an entirely sensible precaution.

The decision to carry out these procedures were largely bottom up from the people and local state government rather than top down from the Federal government, indeed the Federal Government here was at odds with the state governments and the general wishes of most people.

> I'm specifically talking about listening to your fellow citizens offline not antivaxer types online.

What makes you think I haven't and the other peer Australian here hasn't?

> Which punishment for purely what thoughts are you referring to here ?

>> Should have just started there friend.

You still haven't replied to that question though, have you?

Oh, and for what it's worth, you weren't called a pork chop you were asked what were "you waffling on like a pork chop about?"

It's idiomatic in Australians and used by Australians in real life when talking in real life to others.

See (for example): https://slll.cass.anu.edu.au/centres/andc/meanings-origins/p...

It's a reference to sizzling away with all sound and fury with no apparent substance.

eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKifJ4Q5ph0

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#126

Post by stephenr »

verticalscaler wrote: post #124
stephenr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is wrongthink. It's nothing to do with "wrongthink". It's a completely unrelated topic. Imagine if you were involved in a conversation about the negative impacts of the tobacco industry on society, and I just jumped in with "cars are by far more dangerous than air travel". Regardless of whether what I said is true, it has nothing to do with the existing conversation. You'll notice that I chose a very easy to p…

> It's nothing to do with finding you "disagreeable". It's pretty basic etiquette when having a conversation. Please tell me more about this etiquette while calling me a foodstuff. Indeed Covid is the unrelated topic, my opening words: Regardless of where you stand on Covid ...the original reasons for draconian law enforcement meant to be temporary are long gone.. The mentality however remains. I can only hope not pe…

> Please tell me more about this etiquette while calling me a foodstuff.

I'm sorry you don't appreciate porcine slang. Would you prefer "Why are you going off like a bucket of prawns in the sun?" Or if you like crustaceans but prefer it was a bit snappier (no crab pun intended), how about "Don't come the raw prawn mate?"

> the original reasons for draconian law enforcement meant to be temporary are long gone..

How many times do people have to tell you that these measures are unrelated to COVID and pre-date it? COVID is thus not the "original reason" for the law in question, and never has been.

> The mentality however remains.

What mentality?

As much as this hasn't affected me yet personally (and I currently live as an expat in a country that is definitely a popular destination for some of the shifty fuckers they're actually looking for) I'm against the policy, and I would imagine most of my Australian friends would consider it overly invasive if they were told to hand over their PIN.

Are you somehow trying to suggest that because Australians in general approved of the restrictions put in place during the pandemic, that they're also likely to approve of this? I very much doubt that.

> You would with some probability jump to conclusions that I'm part of the outgroup

What "outgroup"? What are you even talking about?

> treat me with a heavyhand as demonstrated by this whole exchange

Calling someone out for talking shit about a topic they clearly don't know anything about is hardly "heavy handed".

> Wonderful, what does that have to do with this foreigner?

Well you're a foreigner who yet again made pretty ridiculous claims about Australians and their thoughts regarding how the government handled the pandemic.

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#127

Post by qingcharles »

fractallyte wrote: post #97
qingcharles wrote: post #58

At Heathrow airport I was offered the option of switching my laptop on to show them it worked, plus a full body x-ray, or "the other option" (man waves a pair of gloves insinuating a full body cavity search). So, you can see what (mostly) everyone would choose there. The only bonus was that security man managed to walk me around the 2-hour long security line.

The gloves are standard, for hygiene purposes during a pat down - emphatically not a cavity search! I was manually searched on my last trip because I refused to go through the millimeter wave scanner.

Whatever the guy said, it was clearly insinuated, without saying it specifically, that his hands would be taking a trip into my butt :p

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#128

Post by DEADMINCE »

tamimio wrote: post #75
bloomingeek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more! Hypothetical: I wonder how they would react, on looking at my cell, if before leaving home I removed all my pictures and contacts, erased my internet history and removed all files? Would they think I'm hiding something or just being careful with my private data? Instead of, "Don't leave home without it!", leave home without data on phone. :)

> on looking at my cell, if before leaving home I removed all my pictures and contacts, erased my internet history and removed all files? They take a whole dump for future forensic if needed, and that includes the ability to restore what you have deleted.

If you wipe the phone completely and re-image it, they can't recover a thing.

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#129

Post by DEADMINCE »

oska wrote: post #109
tflol wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, wandering male Sydney Funnel-web Spiders make me want to avoid Australia

On the assumption (perhaps misplaced) that this comment is serious and not a joke, such a sentiment indicates extremely poor risk assessment. Native Australian fauna represents such an extremely small risk to tourists that it is not worth considering. (But obviously if you do encounter any dangerous looking fauna you should treat it with respect.) But I do agree with the grandparent comment that this extreme level of…

> Native Australian fauna represents such an extremely small risk to tourists that it is not worth considering.

Not only that, but most of the species are common in the USA and EU and just have different names.

Also, the US has far more dangerous animals, but somehow Australia is famous for that lol.

Re: Australian Border Force searched phones of 10k travellers in past two years

#130

Post by DEADMINCE »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #67
zensavona wrote: post #53

I'll just add a couple of details here since I have had this happen to me multiple times... I'm an Australian citizen and this applies just as much to me as a foreigner (for whom although I disagree about, I could make a reasonable argument for this being valid). Police require a warrant and/or reasonable suspicion of having committed a specific crime to search any part of you or your belongings. Border Force do not…

What would you say to people claiming that Australia is falling into authoritarianism?

As far as internet access and devices and things like this go, all western governments are going to become authoritarian in this regard. Only thing we can do is try to change the government, and otherwise fight back with plausibility deniability and using tools like encryption and steganography.
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