85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics • Hacker News Board

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#121

Post by lokar » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

zeeveener wrote: post #69

blackle wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree, however if you're the kind of person who orders groceries, then what ends up happening is that you start collecting reusable bags that you have no way of reusing. I hope that someone starts some kind of "reusable bag recycling" system so I can give the scores of bags I have to a good home

In my area, one of our grocery chains has "Compostable Bags" which they package the "Pickup / Delivery" orders in. My area also mandates municipal composting so the discussion of "But is it _really_ compostable" is moot.

It does not matter much how they do in a landfill. What matters is what happens when left out in the environment, aiui they weather and breakdown pretty fast.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#122

Post by quinncom » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #47

It's not sexy, but the number one way to reduce plastic pollution is to build landfills and proper waste management systems in developing countries. Plastic bans are largely performative and often counterproductive. Instead of bringing their own bags, a lot of shoppers just treat the "reuseable" bags the they buy a the supermarket as disposable. https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2024/01/22/new-j... https://…

Mexico City implemented a ban on single-use plastics on January 1, 2021, which has been almost completely ignored except outside of corporate chains such as Walmart, where indeed many people just buy the recyclable bags.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#123

Post by MSFT_Edging » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #82

Can anyone explain to me how this works in practice? Eg if i now buy meat or cheese or pre-cut vegetables or bread at the supermarket, it’s in plastic packaging. What do legislators propose we replace that by? I understand (and use) reusable shopping bags but keeping sliced ham fresh sounds less practical. For clarity, I’m not skeptical, I’m all for the strictest plastic ban that’s remotely practical. But I don’t get…

Butchers used to use wax paper. Many still do. A wax paper without a petroleum based coating can compost.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#124

Post by Carrok » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #104

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only situation where OP isn’t an idiot is food delivery. If you get your groceries delivered, I don’t think there is a formal feed back mechanism. (Though your grocery store would almost certainly accept them back.)

It's an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice. Calling people idiots isn't constructive, and besides, one may not be an idiot for simply not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill. It's just different judgements about what's important.

You're assuming the bag actually makes it to the landfill. MANY do not. Also, the rancid meat juice issue sounds like a problem specific to you. I certainly don't have that issue.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#125

Post by kragen » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #46

How does this work, practically, at the grocery store? Many foods are sold in a disposable plastic wrapper. Cereal, meat, frozen foods, etc. What is the alternative? We bring a bunch of tupperware and everything is sold in bulk?

they could sell you a glass jar with the food in it; in rich countries the extra cost of the disposable single-use glass wouldn't be significant to most consumers, although it would produce more pollution, hazard, and waste than the plastic alternatives. we've had returnable coke bottles since they started bottling coke

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#126

Post by dumbo-octopus » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #97

lowkey_ wrote: post #41

I was skeptical of whether it was representative of 85% of the global population, or just the first-world. I've often thought (and heard that) environmental concerns are secondary to economic, and that people in less prosperous countries don't care as much about environmental concerns as people in first-world countries who are secure in most areas of their lives. Surprisingly, this data says the opposite! Sample size…

Poorer parts of the world have (typically) much worse problems with litter. Poorer nations typically have no/few refuse collection services, and people often just pile up and burn their own refuse or dump it in rivers to take it away. That means poorer people see directly the litter rather than an 'out of sight, out of mind' approach.

More importantly, the folks who take the time to response to these surveys in poorer countries are much more likely to be the affluent class who spends time in the kind of areas the surveyors are willing to visit, and has spare time on their hands to talk to people.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#127

Post by ganzuul » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #82

Can anyone explain to me how this works in practice? Eg if i now buy meat or cheese or pre-cut vegetables or bread at the supermarket, it’s in plastic packaging. What do legislators propose we replace that by? I understand (and use) reusable shopping bags but keeping sliced ham fresh sounds less practical. For clarity, I’m not skeptical, I’m all for the strictest plastic ban that’s remotely practical. But I don’t get…

Glass jars and tin cans were the old solution.

Perhaps some modern deep eutectic chemistry can improve on the old energy economy of glass.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#128

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #104

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only situation where OP isn’t an idiot is food delivery. If you get your groceries delivered, I don’t think there is a formal feed back mechanism. (Though your grocery store would almost certainly accept them back.)

It's an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice. Calling people idiots isn't constructive, and besides, one may not be an idiot for simply not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill. It's just different judgements about what's important.

> an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice

Why do you have rancid meat juice in your grocery bag!? Why do you have rancid meat!

> not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill

I don’t particularly care about this. I still have a couple reusable bags in the back of my car that I use to transport food from the grocery store home. (I never have to deal with bags breaking. And my town charges for single-use paper bags, which I think is a fair compromise.)

When rancid meat juice raises its head, it’s rare and immediately dealt with by cleaning out the fridge. I’d be worried for a friend citing exposure to it as not only a regularity, but inevitability.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#129

Post by wannacboatmovie » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #97

lowkey_ wrote: post #41

I was skeptical of whether it was representative of 85% of the global population, or just the first-world. I've often thought (and heard that) environmental concerns are secondary to economic, and that people in less prosperous countries don't care as much about environmental concerns as people in first-world countries who are secure in most areas of their lives. Surprisingly, this data says the opposite! Sample size…

Poorer parts of the world have (typically) much worse problems with litter. Poorer nations typically have no/few refuse collection services, and people often just pile up and burn their own refuse or dump it in rivers to take it away. That means poorer people see directly the litter rather than an 'out of sight, out of mind' approach.

> Poorer nations typically have no/few refuse collection services, and people often just pile up and burn their own refuse or dump it in rivers to take it away.

Would it not make sense then if they had a container with which to collect and responsibly dispose of the refuse? A plastic bag perhaps?

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#130

Post by cogman10 » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #57

lykahb wrote: post #18

A ban like that sounds good. But what would replace those plastics? For the take-out food containers a common alternative is PFAS-treated paper. Is it much better for the health environment?

In Germany, I've seen a multi-use container system implemented by at least some delivery companies and restaurants. But even just reducing the staggering amount of single-use plastics in regular restaurant/bar contexts in the US would be a start. The amount of restaurants serving plastic cups, paper plates, and plastic tableware is absurd, and I'm not talking about festivals, outdoor food trucks etc – regular sit-dow…

> regular sit-down places with proper plumbing and enough space for a dishwasher that really have no excuse whatsoever for generating that amount of waste.

They have an excuse; they don't want to pay someone to wash dishes.

This is why a ban is necessary. Businesses will always look for the cheapest way to operate.