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Hunting Down My Son's Killer

matt.might.net

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Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#121

Post by jasonlotito »

yason wrote: post #63
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

As a father with a son with severe autism (not to suggest it's equivalent to Bertrand's condition), there is an important lesson here that might not be apparent at first read. Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. Your concerns are second, beyond anything you've ever understood. Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege.…

Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege. No, marriage is having one heck of a good time living your life with your spouse. Being a single parent is better than a bad marriage. And marriage can only be good if the parents know and acknowledge that they together go first, kids come second. Period. Your spouse is the person you spend rest of your life (or at least decades, if you're luc…

You're really reading a lot more into that than was intended. Indeed, you completely miss the point, which is clear with this:

> you won't necessarily have a relationship once the kids move out in twenty years or so.

Right here is the problem. You assume a healthy child, one that is capable of living on their own. But you have a responsibility to that child if they can't.

This doesn't mean you give up your dreams. This doesn't mean an end to your life. But it means taking care of your children. It's your responsibility.

I can't just ignore my child's care and go on a long vacation with the wife. Oh, I mean, I could, but that would be tantamount to child abuse. I need to make sure he's cared for, appropriately, or adjust my vacation to accomodate his needs.

> You don't ever own your kids' lives and you won't even have much control over theirs for more than the 10-15 early years.

This is why you can't just quote a part of the comment, and take it out of context. I'm faced with the very real possibility that I'll be responsible for my son's life for much longer than that. You can't just make assumptions like you are.

So no, you are wrong. Wrong, because you make some obviously wrong assumptions that simply don't hold up to any amount of scrutiny. I think your intent is honest, but frankly, you're trying to argue a point that is, frankly, pointless.

Edit: I do want to point out though, that neglecting your marriage isn't good either. So, please dont' think I'm suggesting that by putting children first, you aren't leaving room for your spouse.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#122

Post by jasonlotito »

altrego99 wrote: post #20
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

As a father with a son with severe autism (not to suggest it's equivalent to Bertrand's condition), there is an important lesson here that might not be apparent at first read. Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. Your concerns are second, beyond anything you've ever understood. Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege.…

Sorry, not worth it at all. Years 1-10 - you will loose all your time - cleaning diapers, making the child eat, making it study, teaching it values - waking up at night - and doing a lot of things for it. Yes you'll see it learn, smile, grow up and you're genetically conditioned to like it. But you will not be able to play your games, go to your parties - read book or contemplate on life, or code without expecting in…

And that's fine that you feel that way. It's good that you've thought this through. I'd much rather someone act this way than pretend like having children is what they want.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#123

Post by jseliger »

sneak wrote: post #26

Why on Earth would you conceive another child with the risks involved here? There are thousands of unwanted children that would benefit from having such a thoughtful and dedicated set of parents. Is it pure egocentrism that keeps high-risk parents from adopting?

Is it pure egocentrism that keeps high-risk parents from adopting?

Interestingly enough, adopted children tend to resemble their birth parents much more than adopted parents in the "Big Five" personality traits, and twins raised apart from each other resemble one another to a shocking degree. Bryan Caplan's book Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids discusses many of the studies that have examined these issues.

If you want a kid who is "like you," your optimal choice is probably to have biological children. The joys (and problems?) of being a parent, however, appear to be universal. Note that the first paragraph and Caplan's book are not an argument against adoption, but they are a reminder that genetics appear to have a much more powerful influence on people's personality than most Americans / Westerners wanted to believe for a very long time.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#125

Post by megablast »

maratd wrote: post #89
slurgfest wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not necessary or helpful to be uncivil about this. altrego99 is expressing a considered personal view with which you disagree, not insulting you or the mass of humanity. You are entitled to your personal view as well. But you could recognize consideration of the issue as a good thing and the disagreement as normal and healthy. Instead, you are calling people terrible names and picking on grammar, without provoc…

> But the implication that no one with kids could ever disagree with you is not correct It is impossible to speak about any subject intelligently unless you have experience with it. That's just how reality works. If that offends your sensibilities, may I suggest you're a tad too sensitive?

So you can't have experience of having kids unless you have kids. This is almost along the lines of saying you don't know that getting hit by a car is bad, until you have been. I have plenty of experience with kids, my brothers and sisters have plenty. Not as much experience as a parent, clearly, but enough to know what I want.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#126

Post by kami8845 »

aphyr wrote: post #106
maratd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of all life is to reproduce. It's one of the qualifications to be considered alive. So yeah, without children, life literally loses its meaning =)

1. The definition of life is fuzzy at best. Most of these definitions operate on populations, not individuals. 2. Population fitness can be optimized by many activities: food gathering, art, research, supporting peers, etc. 3. Meaning is a mental construct. Arguing over the absolute "point" of life is pointless, because the epiphenomena of "value" is a chemical cascade in our brains and can be coupled to almost anyth…

By maratd's logic anything you have ever done or ever will do is completely pointless. You might as well kill yourself.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#128

Post by jasonlotito »

maratd wrote: post #73
aiscott wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the intended meaning of compromise with regards to marriage is about not always getting "your way."

And my point was that you should always get your way. She should get her way too. So should the kids. You should lead them there.

You misunderstand the word compromise in this context. It's not a negative. Compromise is:

> a position where everybody is genuinely happy.

It's not about splitting 50/50. People equate meeting someone half way with splitting things 50/50. That's far from it.

So, what you say is true. It's what I was saying, just with more words. =)

Now, please don't come back and be one of those people that argue semantics. I meant what I said, I said what I meant, and there was just some confusion. Hopefully, it's clearer now.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#129

Post by run4yourlives »

altrego99 wrote: post #20
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

As a father with a son with severe autism (not to suggest it's equivalent to Bertrand's condition), there is an important lesson here that might not be apparent at first read. Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. Your concerns are second, beyond anything you've ever understood. Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege.…

Sorry, not worth it at all. Years 1-10 - you will loose all your time - cleaning diapers, making the child eat, making it study, teaching it values - waking up at night - and doing a lot of things for it. Yes you'll see it learn, smile, grow up and you're genetically conditioned to like it. But you will not be able to play your games, go to your parties - read book or contemplate on life, or code without expecting in…

This thing that can only cry learns to: talk, walk, read, express themselves, formulate opinions, ride a bike, conquer fears, grow etc. They do this all the while looking at you as a hero with nothing but complete and selfless love for you. All your minor faults are irrelevant to them. You are their everything.

Yes, it's genetic conditioning, but I have been on this planet 37 years and have never experienced emotion on any scale anywhere approaching what fatherhood has given me. Here's another secret - it's completely different the second time around too!

I'm struggling here to find an argument that would help illustrate this to a non-parent and I am failing. I'll leave it at this:

I would give up everything I'll ever do from now until death - my entire existence - in exchange for my children's without more than a 30 second thought. That is what parenthood does to you.

It's fucking great.

Re: Hunting Down My Son's Killer

#130

Post by jakejake »

yason wrote: post #63
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

As a father with a son with severe autism (not to suggest it's equivalent to Bertrand's condition), there is an important lesson here that might not be apparent at first read. Before you have children, understand that it's for the rest of your life. Really understand the impact. Your concerns are second, beyond anything you've ever understood. Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege.…

Marriage is about compromise. Children, however, afford no such privilege. No, marriage is having one heck of a good time living your life with your spouse. Being a single parent is better than a bad marriage. And marriage can only be good if the parents know and acknowledge that they together go first, kids come second. Period. Your spouse is the person you spend rest of your life (or at least decades, if you're luc…

I do agree with you that people flame out because their lives evolve around kids and they lose touch with each other. It can't really be underestimated the amount of energy required to stop that from happening. You always see on TV that marriage takes work but I doubt many people understand what that actually means until they're in it. Little things can creep up on you. Your spouse may feel neglected and you won't even know it until it's gotten to be a serious problem. You might think you're being the perfect parents because you dote on your kids and meanwhile your spouse is lonely and unhappy. You might not even be aware that you're being selfish. Children tend to consume every ounce of energy that the parents have, especially in the early years. That doesn't leave a lot of time or energy left for each other. It really takes a constant effort and work to keep the marriage healthy.
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