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North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

38north.org

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Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#121

Post by constantcrying »

geraldwhen wrote: post #116
constantcrying wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a defense. Even in a court of law not knowing about something can potentially protect you from punishment. It is just a part of the nature of outsourcing. Your supplier might just choose to outsource himself and have the work done by companies you couldn't possibly work with. For a digital good this is extremely hard to monitor. How would a Californian studio possibly know what company their supplier outsources…

Don’t outsource. If you outsource, have boots on the ground ensuring working conditions and no re outsourcing. Pick one. Pretty straightforward.

Boots on the ground isn't enough. Even in a company where everyone is physically at the same location overseeing who does what work is near impossible for any large scale projects.

But yes, please let management know that outsource is only attractive on paper. Every experience I have had with it is has been bad. The communication gap is just so much larger and your ability to oversee what gets done and how it gets done just evaporates. The ethical/legal problem is just one result of that, but even without it outsourcing often just costs far more in hidden expenses.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#122

Post by anigbrowl »

karaterobot wrote: post #98
exhilaration wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the most interesting part of the article - that Amazon and HBO projects are being worked on by NORTH KOREAN workers!!! I totally agree with the HN headline and I'm glad it got me to click and read the entire article.

If the headline is factually wrong, it doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not.

But it's not. The original headline was just vague, and HN tends to ignore headlines that are too abstract or vague.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#123

Post by vkou »

geraldwhen wrote: post #77
karaterobot wrote: post #35

The HN headline is more clickbaitey than the original article, which has a different headline and goes out if its way to point out that Amazon and HBO are likely not the ones doing the outsourcing to North Korea. > There is no evidence to suggest that the companies identified in the images had any knowledge that a part of their project had been subcontracted to North Korean animators. In fact, as the editing comments…

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

I'm sure you buy all sorts of products that are built using conflict minerals, slave labour, etc.

Is your ignorance a defense? Should we hold you accountable for the entire supply chain that goes into what you consume?

Or can we just say that you should put in a reasonable amount of effort towards avoiding this (with reasonable being defined by the legislature and the judiciary)?

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#124

Post by godelski »

Arrath wrote: post #85
geraldwhen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Outsourcing and then claiming ignorance is not a defense against financing North Korea.

Classic 'two steps removed' syndrome. "I told X to get it done. What X did to get it done is not my fault/responsibility."

You're oversimplifying the issue, which does nothing to bring us closer to a solution.

If you tell X to get something done and ALSO give X rules that they must follow and X gets the thing done but __breaks the rules__ then this is different. It is also different if you have reasonable suspicion to expect them to break the rules or are using subversive language to tell them to break the rules. These are different things and have different consequences.

If you are truely acting in good faith, then yes, it is a defense. But determining if that's true is not an easy task.

There is good faith, coercion, negligence, and willful negligence. These are different things.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#126

Post by beaeglebeachh »

krisoft wrote: post #120
beaeglebeachh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if N Korea had a cheap/low-barrier remote visa it might be attractive. I would imagine having an oppressive authoritarian regime looking at you as a prime tax slave might mean none of the prols would risk getting their head chopped off to mess with you. Meanwhile labor/rent/food gotta be hella cheap.

Hard to look at the Otto Warmbier story and say “hey, you know what? I wish i could also be there”

I see it as a much worse version of Dubai. The economic arbitrage version of fishing for king crab in a lethal bering Sea.

Not saying I'd do it. But it might be attractive to the right person.

Re: North Korean animation outsourcing for Amazon, HBO Max series

#130

Post by gwbas1c »

peppertree wrote: post #10

The real question is does North Korean let their animators work remote in a LOCL area.

The economics of where you live are very different in a communist (Or whatever NK calls itself now) state. I would assume that the people with these jobs don't have an American-style commute.
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