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Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

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Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's baffling to many people how FISA is even a thing. To a layperson, the Fourth Amendment leaves no room for a rubber stamp court authorizing mass surveillance. And no one except politicians and bureaucrats are buying the argument that this is somehow targeted surveillance. Also, free nations should have higher standards than "Not a citizen? Too bad, anything goes."

This is not complicated: If you run a telegraph wire between El Paso and Juárez, the executive has the Constitutional authority to tap it to intercept communication to or from a non-citizen not in the United States, warrant-free. Congress can regulate the process that must be followed, the documentation that must be made, even require judicial review at the program level to ensure it doesn’t also record traffic that…

> This is not complicated: If you run a telegraph wire between El Paso and Juárez, the executive has the Constitutional authority to tap it to intercept communication to or from a non-citizen not in the United States, warrant-free.

That's not correct at all. It would only fall under federal overview if it's commercial (Article 1 section 8 clause 3 of the constitution gives congress the right to regulate commerce with foreign nations).

The Feds don't just get to do anything they want by default. All powers that aren't specifically given to the feds are defaulted to either the states or the people.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#122
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really disappointed that even in CA (which is pushing for better privacy rights with CCPA), one of our senators voted for this.

I assume any congress person who voted for surveillance has a horrible kink and received photos of it shortly before the vote.

That reminds me of Wellington's response under similar circumstances.

A former lover tried to blackmail Wellington. His response was 'Publish and be damned.' It was published to the delight of many. But he still went on to become Prime Minister.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rear-window-when-wellin...

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really asking if being unconstitutional is worse than being codified and legal? I’m not the one here cheering for demise of constitutional republic…

Neither am I cheering for it. Don't put words in my mouth. I am seriously asking whether being flat-out unconstitutional is worse than building a (legislated and approved) backdoor around the constitution, yes. I mean, better than both would be to just follow the constitution , but that wasn't the question.

Please note that at no point I said that you specifically cheered, so no need to project. It’s a threaded topic.

As you noticed, following constitution is apparently not an option here. Being unconstitutional and ignored, there was at least some hope for improvement, but codification gave us a clear answer that elected representatives are, at best, only selectively interested in supporting constitution.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, FISA should not be a thing. Wiretap warrants should be reasonably scoped and acquired on an individual basis. There shouldn't be a secret court issuing do-whatever-you-want warrants.

To get that you have two choices: Do your best to persuade your fellow citizens to elect a President who will choose to forego this part of his Constitutional powers—or get a Constitutional amendment passed. What I keep trying to explain is that this FISA vote can’t address your concerns one way or the other. If you disagree, I wish you’d explain how.

The Constitution grants the president unlimited spying powers? That's news to me.

Whether the FISA vote can fix all the problems isn't the point. The problem is that current surveillance practices looks illegal to begin with.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#125
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not complicated: If you run a telegraph wire between El Paso and Juárez, the executive has the Constitutional authority to tap it to intercept communication to or from a non-citizen not in the United States, warrant-free. Congress can regulate the process that must be followed, the documentation that must be made, even require judicial review at the program level to ensure it doesn’t also record traffic that…

> This is not complicated: If you run a telegraph wire between El Paso and Juárez, the executive has the Constitutional authority to tap it to intercept communication to or from a non-citizen not in the United States, warrant-free. That's not correct at all. It would only fall under federal overview if it's commercial (Article 1 section 8 clause 3 of the constitution gives congress the right to regulate commerce with…

This is, flatly, nonsense. For example: Executive agencies conduct warrantless border searches unrelated to commerce around the clock.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#126
post #12

Here is a link to how the senators voted[1]. [1] https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1... Unfortunately both my senators voted for it. I did call their offices Thursday to no avail.

Do these people know who you are?!

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#127
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but the cynical side of me thinks that they are representing their constituents. It's just that neither you nor me are their constituents. They pay lip service only during an election year. I'm politically very conservative. I hate every single one of the Republicans. They claim to want smaller government and less intrusion and then vote for... bigger government, more intrusion, and endless wars. I still vote…

I struggle to nail down my political affiliation because there’s literally just one party. They quibble over materially irrelevant hot button issues to create the illusion of choice, but all the bullshit that robs me and my kids or strips us of our rights is _always_ “bipartisan”, passed without reading in the dead of the night. And yeah the only two choices in our upcoming “elections” here are a guy with profound de…

"pro life" is a pretty hard (and exploitive) line separating the two

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#128
post #116
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These laws aren't about protecting America and its citizens, but rather as means to control them.

People just toss comments like this around as though they were facts when in fact it’s completely paranoid made up q-anon level nonsense. These laws work a very specific way and have very specific controls in place to prevent shit like you describe from happening which you could go and read up on if you wanted to but it’s much easier to fear monger amongst one another because it plays to your ego that somebody who is…

https://apnews.com/article/fisa-foreign-surveillance-fbi-3f7...

One does not have to be “important enough” if they are conducting mass surveillance and storing it in a database indefinitely.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#130
post #84

This was going to pass regardless of the outcry. The unnecessary drama of stalling until after midnight is all theater. We need a significant change in leadership for all those that voted this in. If I recall correctly, this bill also includes an expansion of surveillance performed by federal law enforcement agencies and NSA.

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