Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 448 posts

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#121

Post by mrtksn »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

It's not like they have another option, have they? It's an interesting challenge to transform an uninhabitable piece of earth into something where people might want to live.

Also, AFAIK they are very aware that oil money isn't going to keep pouring forever and they indeed are trying to diversify. Their elites all study in UK, France, Switzerland and the USA and the questionable stuff they do is actually about the local culture they are trying to transform.

Their prince who is celebrated for pushing social and cultural reforms is the same guy who ordered the killing of a journalist in their Istanbul embassy. So, it is what it is.

BTW, IMHO they should look into what Jewish did in Israel with the Kibbutz. I'm a great fan of the idea and the Jewish culture that made it possible and it appears to work. Maybe instead of building giant skyscrapers and shopping malls, take a note from the Israeli or even work with them instead of pouring tour money into "Las Vegas". Skip the illegal settlements and genocide of the locals of course, but the Israeli have already proven methods of building high quality high prosperity communities on barely habitable lands. So, the Arabs should take a note. Maybe they don't have other option than trying to transform the environment using their fortune but they have options on how to do it exactly.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#122

Post by alangibson »

The likely reason they want to do NEOM, besides basic hubris, is to jump start a modern economy. All the insane projects bring in foreign engineers, manufacturers, etc. At first your local industry feeds materials and labor into them, but in time you work your way up the value chain and replace them.

It's a time tested strategy. The main problem is SA is doing it in the most useless and bloody way possible.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#123

Post by quonn »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

> nuclear power

Any kind of thermal plant will not save us. Renewable energy can do it.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#124

Post by [deleted] »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #92
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

Air conditioning is far more efficient than heating (by a factor of 4x)

[deleted]

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#126

Post by lqet »

keiferski wrote: post #105

Are there any forums like HN but for architecture, and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism, and instead focusing on the structures themselves? I find experimental architecture fascinating and would rather discuss the merits and flaws of the design itself. Neom reminds me of Łódź, a city in Poland that is built around a single 5km long street. It’s quite cool and the simple geometry is aesthetically a…

> and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism

Some years ago I occasionally read a German architecture forum [0] that may be compared to HN (mainly professionals). For example, I remember the thread about the reconstruction of parts of the historic city center of Frankfurt [1] being really interesting, with a lot of excellent pictures and insider knowledge. The discussion was mostly centered on the aesthetic quality of the quarter and the use of historic construction methods (and how this use of traditional craftsmanship highly motivated the workers), while bigger media outlets often completely ignored this and focused on a strange political discussion that went along the lines of "reconstruction of something destroyed in WW2 = revisionism = supporting neofashists".

[0] https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/

[1] https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/thread/10345-dom-r...

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#127

Post by lupusreal »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #95
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

> Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Do you also call Amsterdam with its dikes and below sea level, “a monument to man’s arrogance? Wasn’t the moon landing a monument to man’s arrogance? I think calling something “a monument to man’s arrogance” reveals more about the biases of the person saying it than about the actua…

Why do you think either of those aren't?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#128

Post by pdimitar »

mrtksn wrote: post #121
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

It's not like they have another option, have they? It's an interesting challenge to transform an uninhabitable piece of earth into something where people might want to live. Also, AFAIK they are very aware that oil money isn't going to keep pouring forever and they indeed are trying to diversify. Their elites all study in UK, France, Switzerland and the USA and the questionable stuff they do is actually about the loc…

> It's not like they have another option, have they?

You always have another option than to treat people like cattle though.

> the questionable stuff they do is actually about the local culture they are trying to transform.

Is it though? Or their Western education has helped put things in perspective, they understood how good they have it and they want to double down on it and make very sure they'll never lose it?

> Their prince who is celebrated for pushing social and cultural reforms is the same guy who ordered the killing of a journalist in their Istanbul embassy. So, it is what it is.

We can also choose not to engage in business with them but money talks, apparently.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#129

Post by keiferski »

lqet wrote: post #126
keiferski wrote: post #105

Are there any forums like HN but for architecture, and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism, and instead focusing on the structures themselves? I find experimental architecture fascinating and would rather discuss the merits and flaws of the design itself. Neom reminds me of Łódź, a city in Poland that is built around a single 5km long street. It’s quite cool and the simple geometry is aesthetically a…

> and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism Some years ago I occasionally read a German architecture forum [0] that may be compared to HN (mainly professionals). For example, I remember the thread about the reconstruction of parts of the historic city center of Frankfurt [1] being really interesting, with a lot of excellent pictures and insider knowledge. The discussion was mostly centered on the aesth…

Thanks, my German isn’t amazing these days but I’ll run this through Google Translate and give it a read.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#130

Post by lvl102 »

keiferski wrote: post #120
lvl102 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades, they wanted to diversify away from oil and build tech industries. The problem is they don’t have skilled labor and would have to import “slaves” as they do with everything. They have some of the lowest skilled and laziest labor in the world. If/when dependence on oil ends, these countries will go back to being poor. Edit: contrast ME with Mexico who is running out of oil. Yet, they are able to build beca…

UAE is well on its way to being the Switzerland of the Middle East and Indian Ocean. Your rhetoric sounds like it’s from 2003.

Think about the fact that education is pretty much free there. They even pay for Western institutions to set up satellite campuses. You’d think they should have the most educated and skilled labor in the world. At some point, you have to realize it’s cultural: they don’t want to work.

Funny you mention Switzerland because they have some of the highest skilled labor in the world.

Post reply on HN