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A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

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Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#121
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the EU too, and I've lived in other kinds of countries. I don't think you realize what it is to have zero control over your government, and to be represented by no one. Your statements are grossly hyperbolic and a misrepresentation of the (real) failings of our democracies. The whole point of the current discussion is how little power you actually have over Apple and other companies as a consumer. You canno…

>The whole point of the current discussion is how little power you actually have over Apple and other companies as a consumer. You cannot actually "vote with your wallet" by not buying any smartphone or not mowing your grass, it doesn't work. I don't know about you, but I've never owned an iPhone. Android phones have worked, and still work, great for me. You don't have to buy an iPhone to have a smartphone. I have po…

> I have power over Apple by simply not buying their crap

Do you? We both don't have iPhones (actually, I do have one at work because it's required for some of the things we do, but that's another problem) and Apple still exists, and still locks in my less technically aware relatives which becomes my problem.

Using an Android phone isn't a solution to all problems anyway, since many bank or identity apps require a locked, unrooted phone, which basically means they only run on unsecure phones that might report whatever to their actual owners in the US, China or South Korea.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's bad, but suppose that all the power tool makers except Granny Smith Tools got together and made a standard for batteries, so now you can use Makita batteries on Ryobi tools, etc. The only exception is Granny Smith tools, which have proprietary batteries that cost a fortune, and have encryption chips to prevent making compatible third-party batteries or chargers. The Granny Smith tools cost more than the ot…

> suppose that all the power tool makers except Granny Smith Tools got together and made a standard for batteries, so now you can use Makita batteries on Ryobi tools, etc. The only exception is Granny Smith tools The problem with that hypothesis is that in reality they just wouldn't do that. Once a fragmented market based on vendor lock-in is established, every manufacturer is afraid to break it because the first tha…

>The problem with that hypothesis is that in reality they just wouldn't do that. Once a fragmented market based on vendor lock-in is established, every manufacturer is afraid to break it because the first that breaks it has the most to lose.

Huh? That's literally what the smartphone market is like now, though it got there a different way. There's two OSes: iOS and Android. There's a bunch of phone makers who sell Android-based phones, and they all can run apps from the Google Play store (or other Android app stores, or side-loaded .apk files).

If you want to argue that the power tool market can't get there from its current situation, that's fine, but it's completely irrelevant to the discussion here, which is about smartphones and not power tools. You're the one who brought up power tool batteries as an analogy here, and like all analogies, it's imperfect but can be useful.

>Do consumers have an option for interoperability today? They don't.

They can buy an Android phone of some kind and use any app from the places I mentioned above.

>say, blades for electric razors: sure they are not interoperable, but they are a minor expense and have actual technical reasons for not having a standard

Apple makes the exact same argument for their App Store.

>plenty of things consumers buy don't have vendor lock-in

There are many places where vendors have tried, but got shot down. Auto parts is one big example.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#123
post #95
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Europe isn't free if I want to own a gun. See, I can also do a single-factor analysis and come out ahead!

I know several people who own hunting rifles.

A significant proportion of the land in the small European country where I live is owned and managed primarily to allow people to shoot things (grouse and deer).

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#124
> Currently, the new version of AltStore is deep in Apple’s approval process and will be ready to go live once it gets the thumbs up from the company.

I do hope that EU will push harder and we will be able to install anything we want (even alternative stores) without blessing from greedy mega-corp...

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#125
post #68

AFAIK this is just Apple-approved apps, just through another app and servers. How does this change anything ? Apple still has full control over what apps users can install. There is no side-loading. They still need to approve every app on third party platforms. Or has Apple actually decided to remove app signing? They sure didn't when they announced this change.

These are Apple notarized apps. As with macOS, they still have to both be signed and go through some verification , but they don’t apply any of the other App Store rules to it.

> go through some verification

Yep. "Some" verification. Random and arbitrary as Apple's verification is known to be.

How many times have you read about a dev who had an app rejected, resubmitted it with no changes and had it approved?

How many times have you read about rejections without a clear motive and any further explanation?

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#126
post #62
post #2

European iPhones will have more freedom than American iPhones. Amazing

In general, having lived and worked for extended (10 year + periods) in both the US and Europe. I find Europe have a lot more freedom, generally speaking. In some area's the US is better, and in other area's Europe is, but overall, I would tip the scale to Europe. American "freedom" have always felt to me like just pure marketing, however the same can be said for some European countries. For examples the Netherlands…

> For examples the Netherlands is not nearly as open minded and free

For a large part, it's mistaking indifference and ignorance for open-mindedness. This is not to say that there is not, at certain levels, deep societal reflections happening for an open society -with the same-sex marriage law from 2001 being an excellent case-in-point-, but, on average, philosophy and philosophical reflections are not ingrained in the dutch culture.

A very current backlash of the Netherlands perhaps not being as open-minded as thought can be seen in the slightly problematic consequences of last elections. With anti-immigration parties having booked big gains, ASML is threatening to leave the country if the anti-immigration policies they promised materialize.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/dutch-government-scrambli...

Having already lost Unilever and Shell, this would be a terrible blow.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#127
post #104
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, having lived and worked for extended (10 year + periods) in both the US and Europe. I find Europe have a lot more freedom, generally speaking. In some area's the US is better, and in other area's Europe is, but overall, I would tip the scale to Europe. American "freedom" have always felt to me like just pure marketing, however the same can be said for some European countries. For examples the Netherlands…

I know a woman who had married a dutch and went to live in a farm there. Apparently it was frowned upon for women to wear pants in the village where they lived, and finally she divorced and left (also for other issues I presume, but she cited closed mindedness as a major one). She's in her 40s, not in her 80s.

One does not simply walk into the Bible Belt with pants on..

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#128
post #2

European iPhones will have more freedom than American iPhones. Amazing

That's because Americans often don't get the difference between freedoms from and freedoms to, and confuse the two, thinking Apple's freedom to do whatever they want outweighs their customer's freedom from abusive practices.

Same with many other topics - your freedom to own a gun doesn't outweigh other people's freedom from getting shot.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#129
post #2

European iPhones will have more freedom than American iPhones. Amazing

I'm in two minds about this. You're not wrong , but I would be terrified if my parents had this "freedom". If some popular app required them to give it full access to their phone, they would do it, and they wouldn't understand the risks involved. I have always recommended Apple ecosystem products to my family specifically because it is relatively hard to do the Wrong Thing, and I honestly believe Apple being forced t…

> If some popular app required them to give it full access to their phone, they would do it, and they wouldn't understand the risks involved.

Isn't it how it works on the iPhone anyways?

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#130
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a woman who had married a dutch and went to live in a farm there. Apparently it was frowned upon for women to wear pants in the village where they lived, and finally she divorced and left (also for other issues I presume, but she cited closed mindedness as a major one). She's in her 40s, not in her 80s.

Over here in Europe your be better off saying trousers, as suggesting it was frowned upon for women to wear pants sounds like quite a free and sexually liberated village to me :)

Where exactly do you think "the netherlands" is located?
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